PS3 online gaming to be free

[Guruboy]

http://www.ps3land.com/article-378.php

um...SWEET

[vrba79]

Well that's a much more civil response to the news then you gave in the comments section of the frontpage you little fangirl, and I will continue to refer to you as such until you start acting your age.

[STi FlyBy]

Well that's a much more civil response to the news then you gave in the comments section of the frontpage you little fangirl, and I will continue to refer to you as such until you start acting your age.

Well, you commented on how civil he was being here, so why would you try to incite him? Not that intelligent on your part :nono:

Anyway, about PS/3 online being free ... I worry it will fall to the same doom as that of PS/2, which was also free: you get what you pay for. XBOXlive costs money, but if the past is any resemblence of what's to come, it will be continue to be light-years ahead of Sony. That's just my worry :nod:

[vrba79]

Oh I just thought he/she/it needed a good scolding.

and yes, you DO get what you pay for, XBL costs money, but a chunk of that money goes to making sure the system is well oiled, I dunno how Sony is gonna keep a unified online system up and running without squeezing some extra money out of someone.

[Amargeddemon]

As good as it sounds...i fear that it wont last long....

[JAGPANZER]

Sony put the 'CUSs' in CUStomer service.

If your PSOnline ultimately doesn't work for some reason,
too F-ing bad it's not like they'll help you resolve the conflict/error.
It's free what do you want for nothing?

XBXLV is a subscriber service;
if they have to have someone walk you through the problem;
they will. Not a FAQfone tree but a live, breathing american.

Membership has it's privleges.

[STi FlyBy]

Sony put the 'CUSs' in CUStomer service.

If your PSOnline ultimately doesn't work for some reason,
too F-ing bad it's not like they'll help you resolve the conflict/error.
It's free what do you want for nothing?

XBXLV is a subscriber service;
if they have to have someone walk you through the problem;
they will. Not a FAQfone tree but a live, breathing american.

Membership has it's privleges.

You proved the point I made earlier ... I haven't had any problems with either one, but thanks for backing me up, buddy ;)

[Rocol]

Agree, as said, Nothing comes for ' Free ', there is always a price to pay somewhere, somehow :eek:

I don't play much online gaming, so it won't affect me :)

[vrba79]

It's like when I go out to eat, Fast food is cheaper, and of inferior quality, where as a sit down, home style restaurant costs more, but the food is damned good!

[Random]

w00t! So it should be too! :nod:

[Guruboy]

and why is the PS3 more expensive? You get what you pay for ;)

How can the online service not be as "well oiled" as XBL? For one thing, it's the game that matters, not the service. You're just playing the game online. If video chat, friend's list, etc are included, what about it could be bad? I know I want to play GT5 or MGS4 or any FF game on the internet.

[STi FlyBy]

How can the online service not be as "well oiled" as XBL?

XBOXlive on the original XBOX was FAR superior to PS/2 online ... I never really had lag or anything with XBL, but did with PS/2 online (when I played Socom, which was the only PS/2 title I played online)

If the servers that PS/3 utilizes aren't that good, it'll be crap like PS/2 :nod:

[FantasyGhost]

the lag was probably more because of the first network cards were with a dial up connection. So people with just a telephone connection could get online aswell.

[Tone]

And another thread about guruboy going on about the PS3 :p

Talking about ps3... check this out!


Report: PlayStation 3 to cost £425 in UK

UK price of high-end version of Sony's next-gen console may cost $200 more than US counterpart; no-frills 20GB model may not be option in region.

By Staff, GameSpot UK (http://uk.gamespot.com/) Posted May 19, 2006 10:51 am GMT

Sony Computer Entertainment UK has confirmed that the retail price of the 60GB PlayStation 3 is currently planned to be £425 ($799) in the UK--although there is still a possibility that this will change before November's launch. SCEUK MD Ray Maguire told industry magazine MCV that the "60GB version looks like £425 in the UK at the moment".
However, there is no guarantee that the cheaper 20GB console will be launched in the UK. "The lower-end 20GB version of PlayStation 3 has no Wi-Fi, no HDMI, and none of the other slots in it, so it's really a question of where we would position it. It's more likely that we will only launch the 60GB version," Maguire told MCV.
A price point of £425 would, at current exchange rates, make the UK console over £100 more expensive than a direct conversion from the $599 US retail cost, and about £10 more than a direct conversion from the European price of 599 euros announced at E3. The 20GB version will retail for $499 in North America.
Online retailer GameStation has closed its preorders for the 60GB console "until Sony are in a position to confirm initial allocation volumes".
The PlayStation 3's chief rival, the premium Xbox 360, currently sells for £279 ($525) in the UK. The same unit costs $399 in the US.

[Amargeddemon]

The company's shares fell as much as 4.4 per cent hence the launch of the PS3 might be delayed by six to 12 months and the costs for materials could approach $US900 ($NZ1362) per unit. :(
DAMN....Thats gonna explode my account BIG time....

[vrba79]

and why is the PS3 more expensive? You get what you pay for ;)

How can the online service not be as "well oiled" as XBL? For one thing, it's the game that matters, not the service. You're just playing the game online. If video chat, friend's list, etc are included, what about it could be bad? I know I want to play GT5 or MGS4 or any FF game on the internet.

On the flipside of the coin, I've payed $5.00 for a hamburger and it gave me the runs.

[Erasmus]

On the flipside of the coin, I've payed $5.00 for a hamburger and it gave me the runs.

So, what you're saying is more or less:

"You get what you pay for, unless it's something I don't like, in which case it's overpriced garbage"

[vrba79]

More like "Buyer Beware!"

[Erasmus]

More like "Buyer Beware!"

XBX - you get what you pay for.
PS3 - buyer beware.

Fair enough, and not a contradiction AT ALL. NO, NOT A BIT.

[Guruboy]

Too right Erasmus. Do you really think Sony would not put any effort into PS3 online? It's one of the only things left that 360 fans can diss the PS3 about!

Tone I was just expressing my happiness that PS3 online would be free. Apparently it was news to most of you, thought I'd get the word out.

To be honest, I don't really care all too much how much UK gamers are paying. come over here and get one yourself for a better price. Also there's always buying from an internet store in America, right?

[Amargeddemon]

XBX - you get what you pay for.
PS3 - buyer beware.
hahaha well said/put i must say :nod:....

[Erasmus]

XBX - you get what you pay for.
PS3 - buyer beware.

Fair enough, and not a contradiction AT ALL. NO, NOT A BIT.

It's come to my attention that people aren't sure if this is sarcasm or not. It is.

[JAGPANZER]

This isn't news guruboob.

Myself among others gave the outline of the refurb PSOnline a few moons back.
PSOnline will have a limited 'free' access level,
as well as a premium access level details of both still being worked out.

The servers matter; this is why PSO has been so inconsistent.
Sony doesn't currently operate nor maintain the lionshare of the PSO network.
That responsibility is left to the respective gamehouses.
As a result most gaming houses haven't embraced the online features
of the PS2 the way the XBX was/IS.

EA tried to be a Sony only company. Remember EA Online?
I'm sure EA would rather forget.
EA Online lost so much money from being PS2 only that EA
had to close the Online division and scatter the respective
titles back to their development houses to keep the red ink
from pooling too much in one place.

EA didn't go to XBX because of MS requests.
They went XBX because the marketplace demanded it.

OMT guruboob,
our eurobrothers can't just 'buy' a US PS2.
We use NTSC they use PAL.
They would have to buy an NTSC TV just for playing the X360.
NTSC/PAL converters would degrade the picture so bad you might as
well be playing a PS2 title.
That added cost is their VAT I believe. In which case they would get
sandbagged with the VAT through customs I would guess.

And yes Erasmus there is no contradiction with the posit
XBX-you get what you pay for
PS3-buyer beware

Lets examine the brief history of the preceding consoles in question
to get an idea of how the companies support their product.
PS2-debuted with an underwhelming line up, actual gaming DVD's
weren't released until almost a year after the PS2 release.
PS2 debut with talk of soon to be released Hdd
----an Hdd three years in the delivering whilist the Jap PS2's had int and ext Hdd's
----no sooner than the Hdd is released a model redesign omits the Hdd altogether
----as a result of Sony's less than enthusiastic support for the Hdd few games
use it
PS2 talks of a browser feature coming soon(this to counter Sega's Dreamcast
which is online ready with a browser)
----when Sega gives up the hardware business Sony drops the browser talk
----as a result the Network adapter takes over 2 years to be released
----in so few numbers that it is an additional 4 months before there are enough
made to go around
----With no Hdd the PS2 memory cards become scarce for almost a year
before there are enough to go around
----Need I mention the blooming of fixit shops offering to repair broken PS2's.
----The problems regarding the laser and heat build up are a matter of common knowledge

I could go on, but I think my point is made.

XBX delivered.
Unified Online Gaming
Downloadable content
revamped controller design
freed us from the memory card cartel
Brought HD and 5.1 to the gaming scene
I could upload my own songs to play over selected games(GTA, PGR,THPS)

The gamer said JUMP, MS was already in the air flapping their arms asking how high?

Thus far, the X360 is delivering just like my first XBX(still operating) did.

The ball is in Sony's court, I can only hope they do better than they did
with the PS2......it's not like they can do any worse.

[jeff744]

let me point this out, the PS3 has several months more time to improve the machines internet, and try to surpass the Xbox (they don't have to worry about angry gamers when their internet no longer works, or is closed down for long periods of time), mind you this also give them time to create better ads for the PS3.

[JAGPANZER]

ADS HE SAYS!

Instead of spinning more hype how about delivering a solid reliable product?
I have two PS1's that still friggin work; it's not like they can't do it - they won't.

It's endemic to Sony's current state of operations sadly.
I just realized that all my old PS1 controllers still work.
I 've had two duo-shoks bite the dust.

[Erasmus]

JAG, you say that the PS2 took a long time to make enough memory cards and Network adapters to go around.
Remember the release of the 360? They didn't make enough CONSOLES to go around. They were selling on eBay for huge amounts because people who pre-ordered them just weren't getting them.

Overheating problems in the PS2? A few. Overheating problems with the 360? Many.

You really can't say "Oh, you get what you pay for," and then the next say, "Unless it's Sony." That's the position of a fanboy.

You've obviously been unlucky with your PS2 - mine's still going strong, and has never needed repairs. Got the same controllers it came with as well.

The problem with PS2 online gaming is it wasn't available from the outset. And things that are tacked on later never work. You tack on online gaming a few years after the release of the console and it just isn't going to work, it's obvious. Companies aren't going to release games with compatibility for something a small percentage of console owners have, what'd be the point? They want to appeal to the mass market, and the PS2 mas market wasn't online gaming.

The XBX had online gaming from it's release, no wonder it was better than the PS2. But the PS3 is going to have online gaming from its release, it's no longer going to be a tacked on widget you buy years after the console.

Only time will tell of course, but it's illogical to think the PS3 will be bad because the PS2 was. After all, as JAG has alreay attested, The PSone was a good solid console for its time.

Personally, I disliked the original XBX. But that doesn't mean I dislike the 360 - far from it in fact.

The sins of the father and all that...

[vrba79]

But can they entice people who previously had no interest in online play into seeing this as a buying point? I owned all four current gen consoles(Dreamcast counts!) at one point or another and never used Online play once!

[Tone]

But can they entice people who previously had no interest in online play into seeing this as a buying point? I owned all four current gen consoles(Dreamcast counts!) at one point or another and never used Online play once!

Your losing out bigtime if you havent played online, i find online play far more challenging than single player.. its more fun knowing you are playing against someone instead of just the Machine.. the win is far more rewarding!

I dont think that just because the PS3 can be played online will entice more people to it, online play has been on the go for years now.. Sony should of jumped on the bandwagon when they had the chance.. they have lost so much ground in the online stakes now that it will take a miracle for them to catch up now.. thats my opinion and im sticking to it :p

[vrba79]

I used to play online on the PC but stopped.
People who are actually good enough to smoke the little emo 12 year olds are labeled cheaters, I also subscribe to, "I'm taking a shot, if you get in the way of that shot, you're gonna get shot for being in my line of fire!"

[JAGPANZER]

The XBX was released 11.15.01, XBXLV debuted 11.15.02.
It was not released with functioning online gaming.
The beta group tested that out from 7/02-11/02; I was a group 2 beta tester.

I wish it was just the first PS2 that flaked,
add to that the next two that I purchased-not including the slimline.

Statistically speaking the incidents of overheated XBX's was actually less
than 1/2 of 1%; it was largely overplayed antiMS hype.
The PS2's heating problems have been a part of the console up to and
including the redesign; the overheating of the motherboard is the primary
cause of the burnout of the PS1 emu chipset on the PS2.

As for product shortage; it's not that there weren't enough X360's per se
(there's always a debut shortage) it's that MS allocated too many for the
core set as well as overstocking them in certain regions that did no one
any good-It's not as if unsold X360's in Japan could be fedexed to Boise.
But you live and learn; I doubt such a problem will ever recur from MS' side again.

It's a matter of eBay history regarding the $140 PS2 memory cards
or the $150 dollar Network Adapters- this went on for many months.

At least the X360's Hdd's and memory cards were on the shelves;
consoles though....ehhh we covered that.

I was a Sony fanboy with deep pockets:
I've spent over $1200 on PS2 hardware since it's debut.
I didn't spend that money expecting to be gipped by shoddy product
and/or lousy product support.
It took Sony to turn me against their hype and promo's.
It will take Sony to change my opinion.
In their DEED not their talk.

What wasn't to like about the XBX other than some superficial
complaints of how it looked-a big black box?
better graphics
better audio
what wasn't to like?

[Guruboy]

I'd have to agree with vrba79 in that not everyone actually cares all that much about online gaming. Most of us would play a remake of FFVII or any new Zelda without online play waaay before we got excited about some other game. I for one can't stand people on Xbox Live whenever I've tryed PGR or Halo online, they are SO ANNOYING. That goes for most online games. However with some of these games we're seeing on the PS3 and others, I am definately going to have to try the online aspect.

I still don't see how a company's past reflects directly on a future decision! It's not like the people working on PS3 Online did all the work for PS2 online! Either way, we'll see. The point is that the online play will be free right out of the box, and from what I understand, this is forever, not a trial. XBL Silver doesn't include online play, which sort of stinks.

I also just read an article about a new controller called the G-Pad pro which is for PS2 and PC (not PS3, bummer) which has the PS3 tilt function, and rumble function. Off-topic but cool, I might get one. I've also read that employees at E3 tried the PS3 controller and found it to seem cheap and flimsy. That worries me, but I guess without the rumble hardware it's going to seem like that, especially compared to Xbox controllers. That also makes me worry about the battery life on the thing, which is supposed to be wireless. Any thoughts?

[STi FlyBy]

I'd have to agree with vrba79 in that not everyone actually cares all that much about online gaming. Most of us would play a remake of FFVII or any new Zelda without online play waaay before we got excited about some other game.

Online gaming isn't for everyone. My uncle is the person in my family I share my love of video games for (between the both of us, we have every system out except the Atari 5XXX). I enjoy online gaming, he doesn't.

I for one can't stand people on Xbox Live whenever I've tryed PGR or Halo online, they are SO ANNOYING. That goes for most online games. However with some of these games we're seeing on the PS3 and others, I am definately going to have to try the online aspect.

Some people are so damn annoying they should be banned from online gaming. People who spam the mic and cheat are two perfect examples, as they ruin the gaming experience for other people. If you want to screw around and hurt your experience, that's fine, but when you involve other people, you should have your balls stomped on.

I still don't see how a company's past reflects directly on a future decision! It's not like the people working on PS3 Online did all the work for PS2 online! Either way, we'll see. The point is that the online play will be free right out of the box, and from what I understand, this is forever, not a trial. XBL Silver doesn't include online play, which sort of stinks.

When all you have to go on is the past, it does. There is no definitive PS/3 that's ready to be shipped, so they don't know exactly what they're coming out with. The people who work on PS/3 online are meaningless, peons. It all has to do with the hardware that's used to implement the online gaming system. If you have an inferior system, the smartest people in the world can't make it compare to a great setup like XBOXlive. Race me in a stock Mitsu Lancer and I'll have you eat my dust. Same idea. PS/3 online needs to be a lot better than PS/2 online, and to do so, I believe they need to shell out more money on it, and if they have to spend money, the consumer will need to reimburse them on it. Plain and simple.

[Erasmus]

What wasn't to like about the XBX other than some superficial
complaints of how it looked-a big black box?
better graphics
better audio
what wasn't to like?

Graphics and audio do not a console make.
Saying better graphics and audio make it a better console is like saying you can make a better painting by using superior quality paints.
The XBX just wan't a good concole. It didn't have the games the PS2 had. Halo was the one-off actual good title. Most of them were old PC standards, or where available on the PS2 as well. Nearly all of them were available on the PC.

The controller was really appalling. It was huge and it was uncomfortable to use.

When the designer fully admits the console is "little more than exposed cards with processors and graphics chips hooked to a monitor." you know there's something wrong.

[Tone]

Graphics and audio do not a console make.
Saying better graphics and audio make it a better console is like saying you can make a better painting by using superior quality paints.
The XBX just wan't a good concole. It didn't have the games the PS2 had. Halo was the one-off actual good title. Most of them were old PC standards, or where available on the PS2 as well. Nearly all of them were available on the PC.

The controller was really appalling. It was huge and it was uncomfortable to use.

When the designer fully admits the console is "little more than exposed cards with processors and graphics chips hooked to a monitor." you know there's something wrong.

Are you mad?

The xbox has a way better great games than bad ratio compared to the PS2.. and thats a fact.. there are plenty good games for the xbox other than halo..

Black
PGR 2
Rallisport Challenge 1 and 2
Chronicles Of Riddick
Area 51
Dead Or Alive Utimate
Fahrenheit
Forza

And the list goes on..

Yeah the xbox doesnt look the best, i have the Crystal one, with blue neon glow within it :) which looks a lot better than the bog standard black one.

As for the bit about better graphics and audio.. most gamers usually go for the machine that has the better specs.. fact.

I only went with an xbox after i went through two PS2's that crapped out on me within the space of two years.

And the 1st xbox controller was as you said crap.. but the s controller is a different kettle of fish.. i well prefer it to the ps pads.. and its going to suck not having force feedback on the PS3 pads.. force feedback helps greatly especially with driving games when done correctly.

[Guruboy]

Ok fine, people have fun playing those games Tone listed, but what one must realize is that there's usually a PS2 counterpart that's better.

I agree I've played a friend's 360 and the controller is a huge improvement. If the PS3 tilt function is really good and useful, I will forgive Sony for not including the rumble feature. However I'm still a litle disappointed by it.

[Guruboy]

In any case, I don't see why Sony wouldn't end up releasing one with rumble later anyways.

[Erasmus]

Tone - PS2 had a greater selection of games. In fact, many of those you've mentioned are available on the PS2 as well.

As for gamers going for the machine with the better stats, which do you think will sell better, the wii or the 360? The polls and reviews say Wii. Now, which has the better specs?
Which sold more, the PSone or the N64? It was the PSone. Which has the better specs?
Do you remember the old Jaguar? The first 64 bit console. Failed abysmally.
Etc.

It seems the fallibility of the PS2 is well known, luckily mine hasn't suffered (yet). :p

[JAGPANZER]

The PS2 versions of most XBX games were smaller
with poorer resolution and flatter sound.
GTA-all of the Grand Theft series is wayyyyyyy better on XBX than the
low powered PS2 versions.

Ghost Recon and R6 series look and play leagues better than their PS2 ports.

Madden or NBA are far better than the PS2 versions in that at least
you could update the rosters with official NBA/NFL stats.

And then there are the games that in the words of the
capcom and konami teams the PS2 is simply incapable of
executing with a modicum of decency(to XBX stds)
STEEL BATALLION I & II
NINJA GAIDEN

Vevendi Universal wouldn't release The Chronicles of Riddick on the PS2
due to the PS2's lousy graphics engine.

The greater selecton of games is laughable.
Most of the games are stinkers to the core
But yeah you can roll a bunch of junk into balls,
or run your virtual grocery store,
or you could pretend to run a train switch yard (custom switch controller req'd)
or you could be a real air guitar hero(with a guitar shaped controller no less)
Oh can't overlook being a monster rancher either.

LMAO---pffft----GFB
Nothing of substance was on the PS2 that didn't make it to the XBX.
And as noted before the XBX versions were beefier versions of their PS2 std.
Those that didn't make it were by and large 969 or other Sony game houses.
No big loss as the XBX replacement titles more than dusted Sony's flat offerings.
There are lots of kickass titles that aren't on the PS2 solely because
of the technical shortcomings of the PS2.
The limitations to certain games being on the XBX were solely legal ones
as opposed to the physical ones of the Sony machine.

FF is on the X360 now; the online group is a very active crowd.

As for rude gamers, XBXLV has a means of reporting the dolts
(as well as verifying complaints so don't think posting neg feedback on XBXLV
against JAGPANZER there will count for anything: one look at my gaming log
and they know whom I played and when).
PSOnline isn't going to be a new service it's just getting upgraded.
The present XBXLV is nothing like what it was in the beginning.
It's a tiger of a totally different stripe.

And you are wrong guruboob, PSOnline will have a subscriber side.
"Micro-transactions" are the income generators in this next round
of console gaming. The developers dig it because it's inexpensive for
them to distribute simple add on packs or niche mini-games that
wouldn't be made otherwise due to production run minimums.
The console makers like it because it builds an attachment to their machine.
SCEA is on record that MT's are in their future income plans with added
options of downloading Sony movies and music from their PSOnline Shop.

NONE OF THIS WILL BE FOR FREE GURUBOOB
You will either have a PSOnline premium subscriber membership with
a direct link to your credit card(as LV does).
Or you will be prompted to bust out a credit card each time you want
something beyond the basic intro level stuff.

This isn't news, it was on gamasutra months ago.
It may be news to you, but that's not too hard a feat.

[Tone]

wow!!

Check out the PS3 Dev kits.. huge video recorder or what!

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705349p1.html

[Amargeddemon]

Woah.....nice very nice...no wonder they are charging us the earth.,....

[Guruboy]

JAG: http://www.ps3land.com/article-378.php = 'nuff said. PS3 Online gaming out of the box is officially free, which includes video chat, friends list, ranking etc. That article is straight from E3, and it's more up to date than anything from gamasutra months ago...DUH. How long do you spend on those posts?

PS2's lousy graphics engine? What are you talking about!? Graphics engines are software, not hardware you noob! The graphics engine in a game has nothing to do with the PS2! Oh my god, stop embarassing yourself!

PS3 Online being just a revamped PS2 online? Ok that's just too stupid of a comment to say anything about.

[JAGPANZER]

You know that of which I speak,
the Emotion Engine was an underpowered processor.
A sub 500 MHz chip against a juiced out 700+MHz:
you know who's apps will look and run better.

The PS3 announcement means nothing to me.
They change their TBA's monthly
(they take back one thing and toss out another).
The Microtransactions info came from the yapper of none other than
Phil Harrison-big cheese at SCEA-but then again you could be right.
Phil hasn't been correct about anything he has said thus far.

Too stupid? Since when has that concept ever stopped you?

PSOnline is essentially the same service
but hopefully with a more unified structure.
I was XBXLV before you were, as well as PSOnline before you were.
XBXLV 3.0 is the same service with a more diverse choice of options.

Video chat will be on XBXLV before it's on the PS3.
Since you insist that PSOnline is going to be so different,
perhaps due to it's imitation of XBXLV so flagrantly it should be called
PSOnlineToo.

[vrba79]

Sony's reputation is irreparably tarnished, so I'm not sure a lot of people actual believe anything they say anymore. I won't be surprised if this free unified online ends up another half-assed unfulfilled promise, and you'll only be able to flip over medium sized crab and attack it's weak spot for somewhat moderate damage.

[Guruboy]

Imitation? What, having video chat and a good online service means PS3 Online is copying Xbox Live? Give me a break. Concerning the Wii/PS3 controller and Online service with PS3 and Xbox live, you say Sony is a bunch of copycats? Is that all you got?

You do realize that half the reason I'm supporting the PS3 is that it's so much more powerful, right? The capabilities of Cell are completely unmatched, especially in its function as an MPCPU in that it works with graphics calculations along with the GPU. However you base half your favorable opinion on the Xbox on it's computing capabilites. So which do you support JAG? The more or less powerful console?

A bad consumer is one that bases a completely new product on its counterpart predecessor, concerning online services for the Playstation. Wait for more information to come out, then say it sucks. Because right now all the confirmed info we've got is the fact that it's free out of the box.

[Tone]

You do realize that half the reason I'm supporting the PS3 is that it's so much more powerful, right? The capabilities of Cell are completely unmatched, especially in its function as an MPCPU in that it works with graphics calculations along with the GPU. However you base half your favorable opinion on the Xbox on it's computing capabilites. So which do you support JAG? The more or less powerful console?


Where the hell do you get your info from?

I know ppl who work for Rockstar North here in Edinburgh ok, i done a bit of beta testing for Rockstar North.. you know, the ppl who make GTA..

And this is straight from the horses mouth...

Both machines are on equal par when it comes to graphics capabilities, and they said programming for the PS3 is a bloody nightmare..

Plus for the PS3 online capabilities, i was told that it was very limited at the moment.. what does that tell you?

So where do you get that the Cell is unmatched? As for the GPU.. benchmarking has proven that the 360 GPU is faster... FACT! and if you cant live with that info.. well thats your problem..

Im beginning to get sick of all these Threads about the PS3 is the best thing since sliced bread.. any more of it and i can assure you that they will get closed ok!

Fair enough.. your getting a PS3 and you think its machine version of god or something... thats your opinion..

Others like the 360, or going for the Wii.. i know people that wouldnt touch any new console with a long stick.. they prefer the classics like the snes etc.. in some they say is the truth.. a lot of the games today are all fancy graphics with no gameplay or substance.

[Guruboy]

You don't get it, I'm getting a Wii first and a PS3 a long time after release, when the price drops. Stop trying to think of excuses to make fun of me, it's childish and does not contribute whatsoever (example: guruboob. apparently this guy has children and he calls people boob!)

Hey Tone, heads up! A game is not only based on graphics, same goes for consoles! The physics calculations of the PS3 PPU will give all the more leeway for the Cell to concentrate on general calculations and its own unique graphics capabilites. In conclusion, the PS3 is harder to program for. That's why we're seeing so many apparently impressive games out for the 360. However, it should be no news to you that the Cell has the capabilities to perform much more complex calculations, a greater variety, and faster, due to the 7 SPE setup along with their advanced interconnect system which reduced data bottleneck considerably (and don't try to argue with that, because it's true.) The simple chip-to-chip connections between the cores in the 360 are very PC-esque (AKA slow). The 360's superior GPU does take that much work from the CPU, but the fact that the 360 CPU is having to make any physics-related connections (with a non-specialized processor like the PPU in the PS3) simple means more work for the CPU. So, Cell is harder to program for, but we'll see why when games start coming out that show off the PS3's real power.

As for you knowing people who work at Rockstar. Well let's just say I would doubt that. You might be telling the truth, but this is the internet...

[Tone]

You don't get it, I'm getting a Wii first and a PS3 a long time after release, when the price drops. Stop trying to think of excuses to make fun of me, it's childish and does not contribute whatsoever (example: guruboob. apparently this guy has children and he calls people boob!)

Hey Tone, heads up! A game is not only based on graphics, same goes for consoles! The physics calculations of the PS3 PPU will give all the more leeway for the Cell to concentrate on general calculations and its own unique graphics capabilites. In conclusion, the PS3 is harder to program for. That's why we're seeing so many apparently impressive games out for the 360. However, it should be no news to you that the Cell has the capabilities to perform much more complex calculations, a greater variety, and faster, due to the 7 SPE setup along with their advanced interconnect system which reduced data bottleneck considerably (and don't try to argue with that, because it's true.) The simple chip-to-chip connections between the cores in the 360 are very PC-esque (AKA slow). The 360's superior GPU does take that much work from the CPU, but the fact that the 360 CPU is having to make any physics-related connections (with a non-specialized processor like the PPU in the PS3) simple means more work for the CPU. So, Cell is harder to program for, but we'll see why when games start coming out that show off the PS3's real power.

As for you knowing people who work at Rockstar. Well let's just say I would doubt that. You might be telling the truth, but this is the internet...

The Cell Might be "all that" but its a swine to program for.. i am having de ja vu of the Atari Jaguar... that was ahead of its time, but was such a pig to program for, developers in now way utilised its power, they got lazy, the same might just happen with the PS3.. time will tell i suppose..

You can doubt all you want if you dont believe me about Rockstar North, i know its true, i could easily provide direct phone numbers or email addresses to developers if i wanted to.. infact i might just go along there within the next couple of days with my digi camera and take some photos.. you will probably say that anyone can walk into the building... wrong! you need an appointment, there are security everywhere and you need a keycard to get through every door..

Honestly, i dont even know why i am explaining myself.. if you dont believe it, i dont exactly give a toss!

Am actually getting quite bored of this now.. am considering getting this thread closed down as well, just like the last one..

[Erasmus]

Tone, you can't 'get a thread closed' just because people don't immediately believe everything you say.

You also can't say "I'm right cos I have contacts".

[Guruboy]

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell3_v2.html

Guerrilla, the developers for Killzone, stated a while back that the PS3 is actually not that hard to program for, as was originally believed.

There was also a little number by who? Good old Megagames! The aticle was entitled "PS3 Programming a Breeze Say Developers"

Need I say more? I hope not.

[Tone]

Tone, you can't 'get a thread closed' just because people don't immediately believe everything you say.

You also can't say "I'm right cos I have contacts".

Get a grip eh...

I never said i was right because i have contacts, i am just going by what i was told.. i think ppl within a development house would know what they are talking about..

And for Guruboy... yeah they said that then.. doesnt help that they kept changing the dev kits ever 2 mins and try and make things more complicated just to try and boost the specs etc..

And who are you to think what i can and cannot get done here within the Forum? Your quite a new guy, the same as guruboy.. you havent been about much to know these things.

If i think a thread is getting out of order, i do my thing.. then it doesnt usually take long for the appropriate action to be taken!

[JAGPANZER]

The PS3 easy to program for so says Guerrilla:
a company with extreme close ties to Sony.

How about Capcom and Team Ninja from Konami that testify
to the exact opposite. Being as they aren't under SCEA's thumb
I'd be more inclined to believe them. They don't have anything
invested in either machine other than the time it takes to code for it.

The Cell is very light on RAM; while in theory it could generate more
on screen images at the same time than the X360 can,
it's insufficient memory wouldn't be able to texture the images that much
otherwise data bottlenecks would slow it down.
Whereas the 512MB DDRAM on board the X360 wouldn't run into that problem.
The GPU on the 360 can spit out the images faster than the CPU can process them.
Whereas the CPU on the PS3 can spit out images faster than it's GPU can render them.

Good references to the Atari Jaguar in this thread.
It was the first multi-processored console that was too big for it's britches.
Until the PS2 came along, the Jag64 held the record for revamp dev kits
that were constantly being sent to the gaming houses. Something like
7 revamps in one year for the Jag and.......... 9 for the PS2.
I liked the Jag(still own one----and it still works!!! unlike/\).
The P2P feature gave near broadbandlike speed over a normal modem.
Incoming call-waiting tones put the game on pause so you could answer.
Doom and Iron Soldier were the only games released with that feature
before Atari went belly up. I still play the Doom P2P every once in awhile
(most of my friends have sizable console museums as well
so we do group retrogaming just for oldtimes sake), it's still cool for what it
was then. Too bad Atari went under before they could field the Lynx
controlled games....that would have been sweet.

Look boob, when we tire of refuting the SCEI crapola that you regurgitate
the only thing left is ridicule. You can try and bring it if you wish.
Unlike you, I am an adult and none of this gets me one way or another.
And don't try and prof up that you don't care either...what a femme!
if it didn't matter to you or have an effect you wouldn't bring it up
Yeah, you learn that in/around your second year of psychology.
I've already taught that mental lesson to my son to save him this kind
of embarassment. If it don't mean nothing, you don't say nothing.

but I digress,
Nintendo has slammed Sony for copying their tilt action feature
while teasing Sony about not being able to overcome the tech hurdle
preventing them from having a force feedback controller.
And No, Sony can't just add it later.
IT industries has the patents concerning force feedback pretty much locked up.
SCEI is still sore over losing their legal case with IT.
IT offered to help Sony out with their force feedback redesign,
but Sony declined.....they don't want to pay IT.
So as usual we get a more expensive Sony doodad
that offers less than the others---this song is getting old

So to be honest it's Nintendo execs slamming Sony over copying their controller ideas.
And it's Microsoft reps razzing Sony over being blatant rip off's of XBXLV.

And it would seem that those individual companies would be in a better
position to the technical aspects of those arguments
than you!

As for polls regarding the Wii.
Numerous polling of the boys in the neighborhood reveals a high level
of mockery towards the Wii as well as incessant hazing of the nintendorks
looking forward to it.
If the Lord of the Flies poll is to be believed, young hetero boys here in
my locale of Texas won't be harping on their parents to get one.
Subsequent polling by my nephew at his middle school reveals similar,
if not identical, responses.

While not scientific by any means, it is no more inaccurate than
the polling referred to regarding the Wii.

And yes I am a dad.
My probationary black belt, beginning muy thai, honor student son
would clean your clock in a NY minute-and he's every bit the wise ass
I am(only he's more aggressive than I ever was at his age).
He makes his old man proud.:bump:

[Erasmus]

JAG, I was talking about PROPER polls, not just what a few of your friends or your children's friends say.

The internet knows better, as they say.

Click for Game FAQ poll (http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2375)

5.31% say they're buying the 360 only

27.57% say they're buying the wii only.

I'd say that's pretty conclusive.

Oh, and that's results based off 94504 votes, not just the opinions of a few locals.

And Tone - that's called elitism, it's not a pretty thing. You've been here longer, so you're a better poster than me? Hardly logical. And this strange idea that a thread should be closed merely because it displeases you - Ego much? As far as I can see the thread breaks no rules; we've discussed the consoles in depth, there's been a minimum of flaming. Just because people don't immediately roll over and see your point of view doesn't mean a thread should be closed. In the end it's the mods who decide, not you.

[Tone]

And Tone - that's called elitism, it's not a pretty thing. You've been here longer, so you're a better poster than me? Hardly logical. And this strange idea that a thread should be closed merely because it displeases you - Ego much? As far as I can see the thread breaks no rules; we've discussed the consoles in depth, there's been a minimum of flaming. Just because people don't immediately roll over and see your point of view doesn't mean a thread should be closed. In the end it's the mods who decide, not you.

Elitism.. i think not.. Whats your definition of Elitism? and actually within this thread the rules have been broken... enough said!

And if i give a toss if someone doesnt see my point of view. And yeah, it is up to the mods, its up to me to tell them about a thread thats getting out of order... so shhhh :p

[JAGPANZER]

A poll of less than 95k?
Mind you the first XBX ran into similar antiMS bigotry.
Some peeps were actually holding out for and claiming to prefer the Cube.

Denial can be an ugly thing.

As for the Lord of the Flies poll, it has something on the Gamefaqs poll
that the gf poll lacks: a vibrant in your face youth vote.
Boys are impressionable at any age.
When enough of the alphas and betas are in support of one thing,
but brutally critical of another: the subordinates tend to follow the
flow of opinion.
When the wiidiculing starts none of the boys seeking acceptance into
the aggressor peer group will want to risk wiijection.
It's the way it is, it's the way it's always been.
Only the names change.

Now of course there are the loner blaze their own trail types
who don't want recognize the group drive at that age(adults don't have to).
They are the ones whom get teased and hazed anyway.

[Erasmus]

When the wiidiculing starts none of the boys seeking acceptance into
the aggressor peer group will want to risk wiijection.

Please, no more wii puns! They're wiidiculously painful. :p

I hope peer pressure really isn't as bad as you say in your area. I know it's not that bad over here. If you want the Wii instead of the 360 then you're not going to get bullied for it. You can't assume that because that's how it is in your area that's how it is worldwide or even countrywide.

[Guruboy]

JAG if you don't know anything about the Cell, just admit it. Cell being low on RAM? Each SPE on the Cell has its own chunk of high-speed RAM, that's what makes the Cell so fast in the texturing department. Here's some numbers: each of the 7 PPEs on the Cell (L1 cache) contains 256kb high speed SRAM. Each of the 3 (we'll call them PPEs) on the 360? 64kb RAM split into 32kb instructions, 32kb data. The L2 cahce of the 360 is in fact double that of the PS3 (1MB verses 512KB) but the real memory power is in the superior amount of high-speed SRAM in each of the 7 SPEs.

Who says Sony doesn't innovate? Ok they didn't actually come up with Cell, but to anyone who understands it, this is amazing stuff!

[Tone]

JAG if you don't know anything about the Cell, just admit it. Cell being low on RAM? Each SPE on the Cell has its own chunk of high-speed RAM, that's what makes the Cell so fast in the texturing department. Here's some numbers: each of the 7 PPEs on the Cell (L1 cache) contains 256kb high speed SRAM. Each of the 3 (we'll call them PPEs) on the 360? 64kb RAM split into 32kb instructions, 32kb data. The L2 cahce of the 360 is in fact double that of the PS3 (1MB verses 512KB) but the real memory power is in the superior amount of high-speed SRAM in each of the 7 SPEs.

Who says Sony doesn't innovate? Ok they didn't actually come up with Cell, but to anyone who understands it, this is amazing stuff!

From the way you are going on and on about the Cell.. someone would think you work for Sony or something.... do you? lol :p

And your tech talk impresses no one here.. i can assure you of that! all kind of facts like that can easily be found on google or on websites..

On a side note.. i just read somewhere that Sony isnt going to allow retailers to sell pre-owned games for the PS3, something about the license for the game, even when you buy it.. sony still actually owns it.. dont know if this is going to be true or not.. but if it is, that is going to put a lot of people off the PS3, if they cant trade games with Game or Gamestation retail stores

[JAGPANZER]

The Cell vs the X360 CPU has already been compared by impartial groups.
The difference was explained as I showed it.
The Cell has less memory period.

This is all academic theory
Because there haven't been any real world independent benchmarks
there are no PS3's available for testing.

So all you are doing is talk.
If you remember, Sony was talking up a storm regarding the Emotion Engine
back in the day and we all see how that turned out.
The hype never matches the hope.

[vrba79]

Too me all this "Well this console has THIS processor, and THIS GPU." is just wannabe-techie fan boys grasping at straws, those points don't MATTER. Top of the line hardware doesn't make good games, it's the people who can fully utilize the hardware that do!

Look at what Konami did with the Genesis!
Case in point, Contra Hard Corps, and Castlevania Bloodlines, they took a machine that wasn't quite up to snuff with the competition but they were able to wow people anyway, and in my opinion Hard Corps was more stunning then Contra 3 Alien Wars was!

[JAGPANZER]

Very true.
The Atari Jag64's Alien Vs Predator is STILL a boss game.
Sadly it was the only title to ever use the Jag64's T&J chipset
they way it was meant to be used.
But the efforts paid off. It can still stand on it's own against
ANY of the susequent AvP titles regardless of platform-PC/XBX included.

Hmmm, do you have kids erasmus?
Still you do live in europe, so I don't expect your kids
to have the same temperment that the US kids do.

Suffice to say the boys have always tended to be right on with
the NBT with the kids scene-do you think I bought a DDR set up
because I wanted him to have one? Nooo I hate DDR; but his friends all DDR.

I haven't noticed anything that marketers in this country didn't already know.

[vrba79]

AvP, that game used an engine that was closer to Wolfenstien 3D's then it was to Doom's but look what an awesome job they did with such a basic engine!

I'm hopping all over the map here but another great example of gaming greatness on lesser hardware was TMNT II on the NES, it wasn't pretty, but it played just like it's arcade version, AND had more levels.(My sons love this game!)

[Random]

All the argueing is totally pointless, its basically "this console is better than that console, because I read something saying it was", no-one will really know untill all the consoles are relased, argueing which console is better isn't going to prove anything, or chnage anyone's opinions.

I know what console i'm going to buy, and nothings going to change my mind. :D

[JAGPANZER]

Yes my point, more or less.
All I'm doing is swatting down the Sony hype.
As soon as we have active product on the shelves,

..........then we shall see.

[Guruboy]

Accusing someone of working for a company whos product they support is so old, it would take someone of very low intellect, especialyl in this subject, to still think it was funny. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

I didn't want to get into the techno crap, but people still don't want to admit the fact that if PS3 is released with the hardware we've all hear about, its potential in graphics and hardware power will far surpass that of the 360, which is really just a powerful PC.

JAG I really need to see a conclusive report of "less memory period." In any case, it's not the Cell alone that makes the PS3 more powerful, but I'm not going to explain it again.

With all that power potential, plus the included Blu-Ray, PS3 to me is an investment. There's also the 15 launch titles, (some being delayed), that all look simply amazing. It's true, game preference plays a huge role in choosing a console. We see so many great cross-platform games in this new age that it comes down to console choice in more ways than before. JAG, you maintained that the Xbox played "beefier" (what a dumb word) versions of the same games on PS2, which is why you supported the Xbox. Well, my contradicing friend, seeing as though the PS3 has so much more potential, wouldn't you expect its cross-platform game versions to be any better? Maybe you should think about that before you buy a 360 without waiting for the PS3 to be released. Saying that the PS3 hasn't been released yet gets you no where, it puts you at a disadvantage as a consumer.

[STi FlyBy]

Accusing someone of working for a company whos product they support is so old, it would take a Scotsman to still think it was funny. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

I get it ... you're flaming Tone :flame:

That's a big no-no :nono:

Grow up, seriously :nod:

[Tone]

it would take a Scotsman to still think it was funny. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Slagging my Nationality is going to do you no favours here boy! :asthanos:

[Guruboy]

Yes, and calling someone a boob or calling what they say bollacks is perfectly acceptable.

[Tone]

So Tone, how much DID you pay to get into the no-rules MG forums club?

Pay?

Now your beginning to get wide, if i was you i would just shh before you dig yourself a deeper hole!

[Amargeddemon]

i think the topic of this thread is way past its expiry date ;)
Tone ease up a bit mate and guruboy your still a newbie bud...arguing with a long term member will result in a dead end......

[Guruboy]

Sadly that's the truth with any forum. I agree it's time this thread was closed, free PS3 online gaming is old news now.

[Random]

Still good news! :D

[JN4OldSchool]

And y'all wonder why some of us dont participate in the gaming threads? Still amusing reading though! Oh well, back to Windwaker on my gamecube. I know, I know, your joystick is bigger than mine...

[Random]

And y'all wonder why some of us dont participate in the gaming threads? Still amusing reading though! Oh well, back to Windwaker on my gamecube. I know, I know, your joystick is bigger than mine...

Lol! My point exsactly! :D

[Tone]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171 Check this out :p

[Guruboy]

Well that does sort of suck...I don't see why they won't be able to fix it in the five months they have left...I guess we'll see.

Not all console projects, especially with new hardware, go smoothly.