NIintendo DS regret buying CRAP!!!!

[necromancer1]

I bought a nintendo DS when they first came out, So far absolutly no GOOD games have appeared for it, they should of delayed it untill thay had made a DS zelda ,Metroid, NEW mario game not a port of the N64 one with joshi, its pissed me off and I wish Id just waited for the PSP, Ive not even played any Actual DS gameson it apart from a crappy puzzle game in multiplay with a mate.

Im still waiting for metroid hunters wich is the only game that I can think off wich might be good.

NINTENDO PLEASE DO NOT RELEASE A NEW CONSOLE HANDHELD WITHOUT GREAT GAMES TO PLAY UPON REALEASE.

Is there going to be a new zelda DS title not any ports from older consoles? as I have played all except the windwaker on GC.

[JAGPANZER]

LOL, what'd you expect?

I told you this was a desperation move by NIN to stave off the PSP's impact.
Sadly Nintendo is in extreme disarray and behaving almost in a panic.
They better shape up and ship out a new handheld that isn't another
friggin microGBADS+BS.

I expect better of NIN.
But given their mousy support for the Cube so far
I'm very concerned with the long range prospects
for the company in general.

[takai003]

I agree that the DS has proven a lack of interesting games. The simple reason is that the new control style is unknown territory for developers, and they have to learn how to make games for the stylus pad. Besides that, the GBA market is still booming so why would they waste their time and money to develop for the DS when they can cheaply dish out GBA games and make huge dough.

Hopefully we'll see more games soon.

[Random]

I bought a DS and didn't regret it, OK I admit there isn't a great selection of games for it out at the moment, but its the same with most consoles really, just give it time and some decent titles will start to appear on it. ;)

[Creativity]

I'm unable to find games for GC in India... then how will I purchase GBA then the disks for it... ???

[mark_b_w]

I bought my DS when it was first released, and although sw support is a little thin on the ground I don't think you can call the machine crap.

The few titles I own are very entertaining and also highly novel. Mario Kart DS is under 4 weeks away, and there's loads of cool stuff on import too.

But if you prefer rehashed ps2 games then that's down to you.

[JAGPANZER]

Rehash PS2 games?
I wish they'd port the PS2 library over to the PSP.
Such is not the case, SCEA has in fact stated plans to the opposite.
They don't intend to port PS2 games to the PSP: too bad.

It's a girls machine.
Candy colors for candy asses.

[30secnds2mars]

I have a DS and I wish they would have released the Micro before the DS because I found myself using it for mostly advance games. I could have spent the rest towards a PSP, but *shrugs* whateva~ The DS has some games worth your while now. Mario Kart DS, for example. Nintendogs and Advance Wars: Dual Strike are worth mentioning. Animal Crossing DS is right around the corner. I hear nothing but praise for Phoenix Wright:Ace Attorney. Trauma Center looks like a game that really uses the DS the way it was meant to be played. Electroplankton is another game that will do just that. I'll admit, the DS got off to a lackluster start, but it's getting better.

[necromancer1]

I agree with you 100%, Ive bought every console nintendo have released except for the gamecube, I hope there working on a NEW DS ZELDA title, its sad that this company went from the leaders to last place in console games.

what I dont like about nintendo is they dont release more adult games like grand theft auto, and a LOT of unreal titles that have made it to XBOX and PS2.

In the future I will avoid nintendo consoles because of this unless they change there additude to a broader age group.

there only got them selves to blame for coming last in the console field.

Anybody notice about 90% of all GBA games are tipical platform games.

MUST Makes for nintendo DS I think are

ZELDA new title (3D style not top view)
MARIO new title
Rsident evil new title (all 3d style)

Im sure theres more but thats what comes to mine at the moment.

[culubalo]

I agree with you 100%, Ive bought every console nintendo have released except for the gamecube
yeah the gamecube just looks wierd.

Anybody notice about 90% of all GBA games are tipical platform games.
well the gba isn't that powerful to do much of anything else.

what I dont like about nintendo is they dont release more adult games like grand theft auto, and a LOT of unreal titles that have made it to XBOX and PS2.
nintendo just doesn't have the funds to compete with sony and ms, what can you do about it?

[mark_b_w]

Can I just say that since writing my last post I've bought a 1.51 jap psp and an official sony 2gb card.BUT that means nothing since the PSP is getting chucked in a drawer tomorrow..

MARIO KART DS.....CHAMONE....getting mine in the morning. I can't wait....I only hope it follows the example of all my other DS games and allows multi player via 1 cart(unlike psp:(...boo-hiss)

[JAGPANZER]

As if you bought a friggin PSP.
Ya sure, I pay 250 US for a PSP I'll never play, and I'll go ahead and throw in
that imaginary sock drawer a flipping 150 US memory stick that I'll never use.
Since I'm making things up I might as well make my imaginary PSP the
1.5 version desired by the homebrewers for their emus.
I'll completely ignore the fact that 1.5 version PSP's brand new are harder
to find since all new ones carry 2.1 or better(1.5 being deleted since SCEA
doesn't care for their units to be hacked to play old sega and nintendo titles).
No I'll ignore all that and claim otherwise because I'm full of crap.

Any gamer die hard enough to drop 4 bills on a gaming unit with no games
is going to put it in a closet or rack dedicated to their hobby.:dance1:

For shame mark, a fool and their money are soon parted.

[mark_b_w]

You know nothing about me and my gaming panzer..

Here's a pic if you don't believe I bought a psp...(I hope it works)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2622/pspds4po.th.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pspds4po.jpg)

It's currently for sale for 300 ukp and I've plenty of people who want it.

It's a jap 1.51 bought from an import shop...hardly rare...this one shop alone had many.

as for die hard gamer, I play jap nes fds & neo hyper64 over my xbox.

[mark_b_w]

edit::

and don't call me a fool..

[smile1sm]

As if you bought a friggin PSP.
Ya sure, I pay 250 US for a PSP I'll never play, and I'll go ahead and throw in
that imaginary sock drawer a flipping 150 US memory stick that I'll never use.
Since I'm making things up I might as well make my imaginary PSP the
1.5 version desired by the homebrewers for their emus.
I'll completely ignore the fact that 1.5 version PSP's brand new are harder
to find since all new ones carry 2.1 or better(1.5 being deleted since SCEA
doesn't care for their units to be hacked to play old sega and nintendo titles).
No I'll ignore all that and claim otherwise because I'm full of crap.

Any gamer die hard enough to drop 4 bills on a gaming unit with no games
is going to put it in a closet or rack dedicated to their hobby.:dance1:

For shame mark, a fool and their money are soon parted.


You know nothing about me and my gaming panzer..

Here's a pic if you don't believe I bought a psp...(I hope it works)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2622/pspds4po.th.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pspds4po.jpg)

It's currently for sale for 300 ukp and I've plenty of people who want it.

It's a jap 1.51 bought from an import shop...hardly rare...this one shop alone had many.

as for die hard gamer, I play jap nes fds & neo hyper64 over my xbox.


Im sorry, but all I have to say to JAGPANZER is: "owned"

Sorry, but I just can't turn away from a good owning. lol

[JAGPANZER]

Not hardly, no body ownz the Zen man.

Well don't tell the shop owner.
PSP's can pull in an extra $50 on eBay if they're original 1.5's.
Sony isn't making anymore 1.5's once those units update their OS
they are ruined; from a homebrew-emu point of view
So whether your game shop has them now means nothing;
when those are gone they are gone. Just because you are ignorant of that
fact doesn't negate the fact.

You spend that just to ditch it?
Yeah, I'm the one that's owned...not even close.
Funny, I wish you could have mp3'd the audio of you while you were doing all that
fumbling for your digicam-calling me names
arranging the PSP pic-muttering more names
uploading the images-giggling, more muttering
typing the post saying each word out loud as you type it-mumble, mumble

You Ninfanboys are too much.

I call it like it is. My favorite handheld gaming unit until the PSP
was my Atari Lynx. The Lynx had all the GB's down until the
most recent SP variants. Even my sons GBA that I Afterburnered
wasn't as bright as the Lynx.
Games? That's the funny part. Outside of the typical Ninfare and
assorted crappy 3rd party titles that nobody misses anyway;
the Lynx line up was still as solid as GB's until the SP, more so the DS.

The PSP is a fundamental leap in handheld gaming systems.
Much as the Sony execs often pointed at the Gameboy and said
that should have been a Sony product; now the Ninexecs are essentially
thinking the same thing.
The DS isn't much more over their own SP.
As stated earlier Nintendo can and ought to do better.

The few who dig the DS aren't enough to save it.
We who dug the DC can attest to that.
Nintendo may keep it alive as long as they wish; but it won't be much
more than a Wonderswan at that point.
The GP32 is already beyond the DS-the DS was obsolete the day it went
into production and every honest gamer worth their salt knows it.

If you wish your machines to stay intact and all accessories available
I would suggest storing them in something more than a drawer.

[culubalo]

@ JAGPANZER :blaclol :turn:

:thankyou: for your post ;)

<edit>dont take it personally mate, but the way you wrote it reminded me of a journalist who does an editorial here in aus ;)

[mark_b_w]

I'm not saying that the DS is a better machine than the PSP. Obviously it's not as powerfull and doesn't have as large a backing by devs, but I bought it for the innovation in the touch screen and mic. To me, the psp offers nothing new.

BTW, I own a gp32 too. For my uses it's like a low powered psp(emu/movies/mp3 etc) I did half think about buying the gp2x over the psp.

What will also amuse you I'm sure is that I bought a new GameCube on Sunday(Currys for those in the UK are selling them for 24.99UKP brand new)

[culubalo]

What will also amuse you I'm sure is that I bought a new GameCube on Sunday(Currys for those in the UK are selling them for 24.99UKP brand new)

the gamecube can get quite cheap given its low production cost ;)

[JAGPANZER]

Where did you learn economics cubalo?
The Cube is getting cheaper only because the production lines are already
paid for. Similar price indexing occurred with the PS2 and XBX. The newer
versions of those consoles are considerably cheaper than their earlier versions.
ALSO, the R&D that was Dolphin at Nintendo was far more expensive
than Microsoft's production method for the 1st XBX.
Essentially MS contracted Plantronics to manufacture a console that would
use XCPU, with NGPU, all with a DVD/CD player and a small Hdd at a set price
per hundred thousand. The protoypes were out of Plantronics share of the cost. MS effectively only had to pay for the final OEM shipped material.
Contrast this with Nintendo that does everything in house and consequently
has higher R&D costs as well as longer production times.

The cube is nice though.
I'm sending a cube to Colorware and having them refinish it in cotton candy pink.
They are also going to refinish a PS2, XBX, GC wavebird,
a GC mem card and an X360 controller in cotton candy pink as well.
The boys will leave the girl controllers alone.

Nothing new?
Apart from web browsing the inclusion of Sony's LocationFree
turns it into a mobile TV(within range of the base station).
A LocationFree enabled home owner could gain access to their
Home Media Center via WiFi from any access point and have full
use of their CATV as well as their DVR archives.
The PSP also adds universal controller to it's app list when the
LocationFree software is unlocked by synching with a base station.

Vs a touch screen and a mic?
I believe a simple software plug in would enable an in line mic via
IR, WiFi, mp3 audio line, possibly even the USB port on the PSP.

that
leaves
.....

Touch screen? Not viable considering eventual smudginess
of the screen that isn't being intentionally touched is bad enough.
A little squeegee would be a better accessory than a stylus.
The girl does tap the screen with the tips of her fingernails,
so I can see where she has no need for a squeegee.
My point still holds. Griminess is a considered given so the developers
aren't going to tax the 2nd screen as much gfx wise. It's different sure,
but then so was
Virtual Boy.

[culubalo]

the gamecube when released had a total production cost of $40 AUD (I think thats about $35 USD).

Sony and ms struggle to profit (ok not so much sony but ms) due to the fact they make a loss with each console sale, on the other hand nintendo turns in a profit with every gamecube console sold.

I'm surprised you think production in house is more expensive, quite the contrary, especially in the game console industry since the gaming targetted 'computer' were first being introduced the commodore in particular were able to make everything cheap due to the fact the computers were manufactured by the company itself, in their own buildings.

Nintendo still makes quite a profit (unlike ms), I think that kind of bugs you and forces you to make up alot of wierd crap about how nintendo has to pay more because its console is built in house werein everybody knows nintendo makes a profit out of each console sale thanks IN A LARGE PART due to the fact its made INHOUSE.

Look, you obviously have a heavily biased view, and I am expecting a pasionate response with some stuff about vagina's and whatnot. As such I won't bother reading whatever your going to write so don't bother replying to this.

[JAGPANZER]

As I've said reality bites.

WIRED magazine's November or December issue of 2001 covered the XBX's
revolutionary development methods: the President of Plantronics was featured
on the cover holding an XBX.
I gave you the cliff notes version of the whole magazine.
Suffice to say what you say is not true.
It is a matter of game industry fact that Nintendo was forced to stop
production for almost two months in order to clear out unsold inventories.
Which didn't resume until Nintendo dropped its price by more than half
from it's original launch cost.

There is a bias here, but it ain't from me.

[culubalo]

Umm, they can sell the gamecube for $50 a pop and still make a profit, because it costs like $35 US to make it, irrespective OF HOW MANY THEY SELL, they MAKE A PROFIT PER CONSOLE SALE, unlike xbox and ps2 were the profit is made from game sales.

REgardless if even what you say is true, wake up! Do you REALLY think that if producing the console in house is going to be more expensive (as if that can even be possible) than paying some other company to do it that nintendo is just going to go ahead and produce it in house? Of course not, they'll sell their factory and pay some other company to produce the consoles, but simple fact is its cheaper to build inhouse, nintendo has that capability unlike microsoft, so thats what they do, and since they do it that way THEY ACTUALLY TURN IN A PROFIT unlike microsofts endevours with the xbox and the 360 which isn't even expected to turn in a profit till 2007/8, and if sony have it their way, there wont be a profit until 2010.

So nintendo sales are poor, who gives a damn? Those nintendo execs are probably laughing their faces off at ms and sony who are both struggling to make their products worthwhile, wile they dont even sell nearly as many consoles, what they do sell turns in a profit for them regardless.

Its called clever marketting, small companies always have to rely on such methods in order to survive, particularly in the tech industry, we wouldnt have an AMD vs Intel if it werent like that, sad to say friend, nintendo is doing a great job turning in a postiive net growth. Nintendo CAN in fact not SELL A SINGLE console for 2 months and still have an overall growth.

I doubt nintendo could have survived if they turned in a ps2 clone as ms did and generate all the same games sony and ms did for their consoles given the simple blatant fact that nintendo is (quite literally :P) several times smaller than both sony and ms.

Instead of looking at sales, look at how profits are generated, because god knows that was one of the questions I got wrong on my economics exam: "what is the main goal of all companies", I was like 'duh to sell their products', trick question! 'to make a profit!' was the answer.

peace man :)

[JAGPANZER]

I seriously doubt anyone at Nintendo is laughing.
If not for a last minute veto by the CEO of Nintendo the shareholders
were willing to sell to MS back in 2002. The head of Nintendo has a lot of
family/nationalistic pride regarding keeping Ninetendo a wholly Japanese company.

You seriously need to study business if you ever hope to have a clue what
you're speaking of. Or I would suggest a referesher in production management.

The shell of the friggin Cube is worth almost $30 by itself.
Similarly the chipset is still worth at least $60 if not more.
The laser assembly; since it's unique to Nintendo you can be sure a tidy $20 at least.
Power supply, controller board, add another $10 each.
The controller itself is around $20.
In order to achieve the deep discount ratio you are picturing requires
heavy production numbers to cut the cost down; even then there is
a level that you can't reduce any further without risking the integrity of the product.
You can't make a profit in the end until the entire production run has been sold.
Only then can the true relative profit be determined.
Nintendo is taking a loss only it's not as significant as Sony or MS.
Which in of themselves the loss on those respective consoles has
also recessed to a less of a loss than it was in the beginning.

As for in house vs outsourcing the benefit is obvious to anyone paying attention.
MS does not have to pay to build a production plant, or the overhead of such
a plant-utilities, water, a/c, plumbing, landscaping, lot maintenance, building
maintenance, etc-Nor does MS pay numerous employees to produce the XBX.
Since they don't pay the employees, they don't have to pay health or medical
benefits to XBX production personel.
Plantronics pays the employees and deals with the headaches of production.
In between XBX production runs the assmbly line didn't lie in static with
XBX employees standing around being paid to do nothing.
During those intermission the Plantronics assembly line manfactured
TV's , cell phones, printers, whoever had contracted Plantronics to
make something.
When assembly lines are dormant there are mothballing procedures that
must be done in order to assure an easier start up.
Subsequently reactivation of a line requires a bit more than the flick of a switch.
A through check out of the line is required. Depending on the line
this could take days or weeks. Retooling for upgrades takes what takes.
None of the employees do that stuff off the clock.
That's all known as capitol investments and outlays. You don't get a profit
from that stuff; it enables you to make a profit later though.
Provided you sell your product.
A $40 production console would only be possible in lots of two to three hundred thousand at a time.
And you still have to sell them to recoup your expenditures.

The same article mentioned that Sony and Nintendo were both considering
outsourcing of future products following Microsofts example.

[JN4OldSchool]

Not much of a gamer myself :cry_ani: but I want to thank y'all for an interesting read!

BTW we have an X-Box, a PS2 and a GC. While I wont argue the dominance of the X-Box, I happen to like the GC. Guess it's just that of all the titles we have I prefer playing Zelda, all the Mario stuff, Spongebob and a few others we only have in GC.

As far as the PSP goes, I wouldnt mind playing with one, but I am hardly shelling out the $$ for it. It is a very innovative portable that goes way beyond just games and movies. Hell, the LCD alone would make it worth hacking. Like anything else, I just want to stuff Linux on it...:blacgrin

[culubalo]

Jagpanzer old boy, you seriously are one funny guy :)

I'll let you keep your cup cake and eat it too, its no big deal for me what you think of nintendo or what position nintendo is in as such I really cant be bothered arguing such and such matter on this company, all I can say is I'm tired of ms and sony's poor efforts with their current and what looks to be next gen games, if I want an fps I'll turn to the PC but if I'm in the living room its probably because I am in no mood to be chasing some so and so with a so and so gun.

Regardless, nintendo is smaller than both sony and ms, it isnt going to survive if it pursuits the next halo or metal gear solid because that would mean direct competition with two companies that will swallow nintendo hole, I'm hoping they bounce back from the GC and really revolutionaise gaming in the living room.

[JAGPANZER]

If I may quote the Ren Hoek the Wise,
"Stimpy my friend, you're an idiot."

Is that all you respond with?
You don't know much do you; other than you like Nintendo..ohhgee
It costs Nintendo almost $30 just to pay someone to assemble each cube,
unless they got ranks of ninnies like you who'd do it for free.

Nintendo's biggest screw up was letting the Resident Evil license go.

How can they revolutionize gaming when by your account they
aren't aiming for serious gamers? That and the biggest hype they are
pushing now is the ability to play 8 and 16 bit games on a next gen
machine, some revolution.

They call it revolution because the normal gamer will make 1 revolution
and go back into the store for a PS3 or XBX.
It follows with them putting a handle on the cube;
it made it easier to carry back to where you bought it and demand
a refund or exchange.

Gaming is my serious hobby I play no favorites.
Consoles stand or fall on their own merits as I see it.

You need to do some serious studying before you think you can
ever school me on how this industry is run and just who is doing what.

I for one had high initial hopes for the Rev.
Since the X360 and Rev will be sharing similar chipsets I had hoped
for something truly revolutionary. Seeing as the new XBXLV protocols
were being reworked to work with the X360's architecture, and seeing as
Nintendo helped MS with the programming of the X360, it seemed only
natural that the two systems might be able to converge on the same
gaming servers. Considering that Infogrames, Microsoft, and Nintendo
HAVE contracts allowing for certain unspecified games to be crossplatformed
from the XBX to the GBA, DS, and perhaps the cube: I expected something
to come of fruition with all this cross pollination going on between MS and Nintendo.

The only reason that MS didn't succeed in buying Nintendo last time
was due solely to one man. Since Nintendo is a publicly traded company,
unless the Executive board is able to vindicate their refusal to sell to MS
(translation-the money better start rolling in); it is quite common and
acceptable for the shareholders to eject the executive board in favor
of one that does what they want.
MS wasn't asking for things at Nintendo to change much as stood then.
While the details are a bit lengthy it suffices to say that as part of MS
the Nintendo division would have had a deal of autonomy that no other
division of MS has. MS just wanted access to the Nin line up and to
quell any competition from that market sector.
This could still happen if the Nintendo shareholders demand it, time will tell.

Nintendo can pretend that they aren't in competition with anybody,
but everybody is in competition with them.
Sooner or later they will have to face up to that fact or they will get
pushed out of the business for all practical purposes.
Either their competition can be Sony/Microsoft
or it will be
Hasbro/Playskool

This is a global economy; no company is an island unto itself.

[smile1sm]

I believe myself to be a neutral in the console debate. I equally love all my consoles, and will be getting an X360 on the next shipment. But saying this:

...How can they revolutionize gaming...

About Nintendo doesn't make sence to me. Just exactly how are MS or Sony revolutionalizing gaming? At least Nintendo have changed something, whether the change is revolutionary or not remains to be seen.

If truth be told, I am somewhat skeptical (sp?) over the whole 'nun-chuck' controlling idea, but as I said above, at least it IS a change in console gaming.

[JAGPANZER]

Is that it?
Claims of being revolutionary suffice for you?

Not for me.
Motion control has been a gimmick for along time now going back to the
original PS1 and N64. I suppose it could be considered 'revolutionary'
in that you are embracing a gimmick instead of just humoring it-but that's a stretch.
WiFi only connection? I suppose, but the PSP holds that distinction as well.
Still it's more inconvenient that revolutionary.
Tethered controllers-Atari had this going back to the 2600 circa 1985.
Granted it wasn't the primary controller, but it was Atari and there were
a good many games that used it.

MS and Sony's claims are at least deliverable and tangible:
the most advanced graphics seen on gaming consoles yet.
HDTV and 5.1 will ensure a near virtual gaming experience.
XBXLV promises to be an even greater success than it already is.

Playing all the previous games made for the console?
PC's have done this for along time now.
Also if you have an old Starfox64 cart you won't be able to play it on the Rev.
The Rev is backward compatible in the sense that you can download
the older games to it...via WiFi.
So it's not backward compatible in the traditional sense.

woo hoo I get my X360 today!

[smile1sm]

Amazing graphics on a console, thats good, but not revolutionary. HDTV? I can do that with my PC, nothing revolutionary there.

5.1 surround sound? Thats not exactly new is it? Again, I can do that on my PC.

Granted, XBXLV will be even more successful than it already is. But the key word is successful, not revolutionary.

For the record, the Rev is backwards compatible with Gamecube games -no WiFi needed for that.

As far as you getting your X360 today...
damn you **evil eyes** I have to wait till sometime early next year for mine. I'll prob get my Rev/PS3 before my X360 lol.

[Dr.MAD]

All I know, is that if I want a shooting game, a war game or a more "mature" game (more violence) I'll use my good old PC.
If I want another type of game, like Mario, Sonic or Zelda games, I'm going to use my console, which I think will still be the Nintendo, because I think these are the best for that type of game. I seriously doubt any Mario game will come out on either the PS3 or XBox any soon.

[JAGPANZER]

No my friend, unless you already have one so equipped you will
need to purchase an HD video out card to support HDTV.

Sony or MS aren't the lackeys claiming to be revolutionary when they aren't.

Again unless you have a PC so equipped, you will need a special audio card
to support anything beyond 2.1.

XBXLV IS REVOLUTIONARY.
Can you name the other gaming service that supported
multiple titles, over multiple nations, 24/7 gaming hours,
voice link with multiple players, downloadable content,
clans, leagues, tournaments, international gaming stats,
all obtained with one account and password?
The answer is no.
Sega Net was nothing like XBXLV.
Sony Online, Playstation Online aren't even close.
Currently there is nothing remotely similar to XBXLV.

Just because some marketing goober calls something revolutionary
doesn't automatically make it so.
Similarly just because something else isn't trumpeted as being revolutionary,
doesn't mean it isn't.

Mario? LOL, if I want Mario I got an SNES to deliver the original.
As I said.
Nintendo can chose to compete with Sony/MS or Hasbro/Playskool.
Mario is right there with Elmo and the Cookie Monster; I guess I just answered myself.

[smile1sm]

X800XL supports HD gaming (according to ATI, I've never tried it before), the HDTV TV in the living room is a Hyundai HQL320WR. So its just a case of connecting my PC to it. (I'd need to connect my X360 to that as well but I probably won't permanetly be able to).

My soundcard is a Sound Blaster Audigy 2, and I have 5.1 speakers.

For the record, I haven't actually said the 'Revolution' will be revolutionary what I said was:

...Nintendo have changed something, whether the change is revolutionary or not remains to be seen.

As it happens, I can name another gaming service like XBXLV. Gamespy Arcade. In fact pretty much any other online playable game for the PC privides all of those features. The difference is that XBXLV puts everything in one place for you, so you don't need to go on the games website or search the net to get your downloadable content.

I do agree that Sony Online and Sega Net are/were nothing like XBXLV. XBXLV is the best online service in the history of games consoles, and I always enjoyed playing it for the two years or so that I had it.

[Dr.MAD]

Mario? LOL, if I want Mario I got an SNES to deliver the original.
As I said.
Nintendo can chose to compete with Sony/MS or Hasbro/Playskool.
Mario is right there with Elmo and the Cookie Monster; I guess I just answered myself.

I don't have a SNES nor a N64, however, I do have Super Mario 64, Super Mario World and Super mario bros on DS.
That, plus the Sonic Mega Collection on GC. I know it exists on other consoles too, but I want to be able to play BOTH old and new school Sonic games, and both old and new school Mario games, which as far as I know, is only achieved by Nintendo consoles so far. So I have absolutely no reason to buy another console, unless Sega decides to make Sonic games exclusively for a non-Nintendo machine. But even then, I'll still keep my Nintendo for the Mario games.

[stevothejedi]

Nintendo can pretend that they aren't in competition with anybody,
but everybody is in competition with them.
Sooner or later they will have to face up to that fact or they will get
pushed out of the business for all practical purposes.
Either their competition can be Sony/Microsoft
or it will be
Hasbro/Playskool

This is a global economy; no company is an island unto itself.

Nintendo make more profit than Sony or Microsoft(Gaming Devision)
as explained in this article.....The only thing that is keeping Sony afloat
is there gaming division as the Consumer Electronics Division is losing
money...

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

Nintendo dont have to sell the most machines to stay profitable
and by the way the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan
These are the latest figure I could find

http://game-science.com/news/001271.php

[JAGPANZER]

Nintendon't cut it.

Yeah they're rolling in the money.

Their popularity is so overwhelming that only one developer even bothered
to make a game to utilize the broadband connection capabilities.

You and the rest of the Ninnies seem to think that if you ignore the fact
that the friggin SHAREHOLDERS OF NINFUGGINTENDO WANTED TO SELL TO MS,
well then it didn't happen at all.
I think the shareholders of Nintendo have a better idea of their actual profit
margins than you do.
I seriously doubt they were wanting to sell a goose that was still laying golden eggs.
The DS concept prototype was known to them at the time as well
as the loose outline that has gradually become the Revolution;
they knew all that and still wanted to sell.
MS was offering more money than they would earn.
It was due to one man and one man only that the sale didn't proceed.
So while the CEO/Owner of Nintendo does have some pull,
if the promised performance doesn't materialize it is totally possible
for the Nintendo shareholders to fire the CEO and hire one that will do what they want.
Since Nintendo is a publicly traded company, the owner is incapable of
doing much of anything without the majority of the shareholders with him.
From what I understand his plea for Nintendo to remain a wholly Japanese
company has kindled some patriotism in his corner, but that was the plea
his reps used prior to the first vote anyway.
Ultimately, the bottom line will rule.

DS is selling well in Japan.
I think the fact that Sony is dislodging them from the US will salve any
hurts over being second in a Jap market that still supports Gp32's, WonderSwans, and NeoGeo's.

My statement stands and nothing thus far added has changed it.
Nintendo's competition can be Sony/Microsoft, or it can be Hasbro/Playskool.

[culubalo]

THe japanese gaming market is completely different from the rest of the world, despite the fact it is a huge part of the global market. I said on some other forums, while outside of japan everyone keeps yelling out about how halo 1/2 are the greatest games of all time and whatnot bs up in japan its sold in the sunday markets and the silly aluminium case its special edition comes in is melted and remoulded for a greater cause, such as door knobs.

[JAGPANZER]

The japs are hardly a meter for great games.
Cripes, mah-jong is still a big seller no matter the platform.
Need I omit the scintillating gaming experience of......running your own supermarket!
Or you can even run a rail yard(keep those trains on time)-custom switching
controllers available(and advised).
Air guitarists Unite! You can play(sort of) on your console now(with special guitar shaped controller of course).
and there's always
VIDEO PACHINKO
or worse
DDR

slagg off you hose head
I'm well aware of the tastes of the Jap gamer; evidently you like to pretend
what they like matters in the long run. I for one, can't see why MS is so damned
concerned with currying favor with the nips.
ATARI dominated there for the longest before Nolan Bushnell lost his mind.
Nintendo filled a void that Atari left and the rest has been history.
We invented friggin video gaming; we don't need nips to succeed.
They on the otherhand do need US.
Ask NEC, you couldn't fill a West Texas High School cafeteria with
the number of US WonderSwan owners....ohhh wouldn't they like
to be able to claim otherwise.

I ain't no flippin fanboy of anyone.
I call it as it happens.
You don't like what I got to say?
Then your problem is with reality.

I'm just the messenger.

[stevothejedi]

Jagpanzer......

I am not a Nintendo fanboy........I dont own a Nintendo
system. All you have been sprouting off about is your
opinion you have supplied no facts.

We invented friggin video gaming; we don't need nips to succeed.
They on the otherhand do need US.
If you dont need "nips" to succeed why are Microsoft spending
so much money in Japan. If shareholders in Nintendo wanted to sell
to Microsoft there was nothing stopping them doing it. If you own
shares you can sell them to whoever you like........

I think the shareholders of Nintendo have a better idea of their actual profit margins than you do.
The link to the report in my last post shows what money was
made by each company....They are all publicly listed companies that
each publish a financial report each year which the report in my last post uses.

There is no point in having a conversation with someone who doesnt
read the facts........:angry2:

[JAGPANZER]

My opinion hasn't even been accurately registered here in this thread.
Everything I have said is 100% accurate to reality.
You won't even face the facts.
Please do list where I'm wrong.

No I don't supply links because being 37 years old, bookmarking the gobs of
info I sift through isn't of interest to me. I know I'm right, which is enough.
Try to prove otherwise if you can.

I never said the profits were one thing or another;
I said MS had offered to buy Nintendo and their stockholders wanted to sell.
That is a matter of historical fact.

Nintendo had to stop production of the Cube for almost 2 months to clear
out unsold inventory-which didn't happen until another $50 price drop.
This too is a matter of historical fact.

etc..
etc..

I already said I don't see why MS is so obssessed with winning over the Jap
market. Winning the jap market is hardly an indicator of success.
They don't matter anymore than the EU; if anything the EU's interests
may be more profitable than Japan's.

The US market is the big potato that everyone wants.

Lastly,
MS stocks sell for more than Sony stocks, which in turn sell for more than Nintendo.

All you are bringing are slanted news articles that can't even stand up
to cursory scrutiny by an avg gamer with a knowledge of the industry's
happenings over the past 7 years.

Look at who the developers are producing games for; that's who is in demand.
That would be Sony and Microsoft respectively.
Nintendo 3rd party support is largely afterthought efforts.

THAT IS THE REALITY OF THE MARKETPLACE

you yutz

[stevothejedi]

Jagpanzer

No I don't supply links because being 37 years old, bookmarking the gobs of info I sift through isn't of interest to me. I know I'm right, which is enough. Try to prove otherwise if you can.

I already have...........and I am 38 not that it makes any difference

The US market is the big potato that everyone wants.

The US is the second largest market as is shown by the link below


http://www.pwc.com/extweb/industry.nsf/0/6BB1D7B2F2463E1885256CE8006C6ED6?opendocument&vendor=none

Asia/Pacific, the largest market, at $10.1 billion in 2004, is projected to maintain its leadership, growing by 18.0 percent on a compound annual rate through 2009, reaching $23.1 billion. The United States, the second-largest market in 2004, with $8.2 billion in revenues, is projected to grow by 12.9 percent compounded annually to reach $15.1 billion in 2009.

you yutz
No need to make personal insults........
Prove yourself with facts
Having to resort to insults shows how low your IQ actually is

[JAGPANZER]

Asia/Pacific? What nation is that exactly?
I'm referring to one nation, and you scour the whole Pacific rim.
In Japan vs the US, we beat them again.

Leave it to sophists like you to resort to dumping Singapore, Thailand,
SoKo, etc... into the mix.
Given that the pac rim nations are known for being intense online gamers,
that leaves Nintendo out all except for PSO.

Financial guesstimates of the sort you listed aren't worth the virtual paper
they're printed on. I don't give much credibility to ANY forecast beyond 6 months.
The economies of those assorted nations have to co-operate fully to
pull in the gains you describe.
The freaking financial projections for the US economy haven't been right
for the last 12 years-and that's just ONE nation, you expect the same dolts
who can't figure US out in advance; they'll get the other stuff right?

My IQ?
You indolent catamite; my IQ last tested at 165 when I was in college.
I call you a yutz, because you are one.
Your argument deftly avoids any confrontation of anything I have said
by throwing up link to data that you clearly don't understand how to analyze.

example of your disinformation:
The US is a bigger market than Japan.
You wish to lump Japan with the Pac rim?
Well then why not toss in Canada and Mexico's numbers-they are part of NAFTA?
ewwwwww, because that would obviously blow your presented numbers to hell.
Liars often figure, figures often lie-the devil is in the details

All I've listed is facts-things that anyone paying attention to the goings on
out of Tokyo and Redmond would know.
All you have posted are poorly evaluated and researched information
based on lousy statistics that have been based on cherry picked numbers.

You can not get around the fact that Nintendo wanted to sell to MS.
I'm supposed to believe a claim that Nintendo is more profitable?
Whilist at the same time
Nintendo's library is pathetic except for a few paltry titles.
Nintendo releases a broadband adapter that only one developer used
for one game-Phantasy Star Online.
Nintendo's production stoppage is a matter of history.
You want the link? Dredge through the MG archives, I listed the link at the time
2003-2004 WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING-I ain't doing your homework for you.
Heck you dredge through the archives you'll find the links to the looming
Nintendo sale: as well as the eventual veto by the Nintendo CEO.
As well as the lamenting over Nintendo losing exclusivity rights to RE.

On a purely technical merit only evaluation I personally put
the Cube at the number one position due to the sturdiness of the platform.
I've said before, I'll say it again the Cube is practically bullet proof.
The XBX is a strong contender for first place; but as this is a technical eval
it's inherent instability and cheap production values are a liability nonexistent
in the Gamecube.
The PS2 is pure underpowered, underfeatured, beyondo mondo cheapo production values
It's trash.

That being said,
if the grading then moves to company support;
then XBX takes it. MS thought of and offered everything.
Sony just delivered dozens of titles a month-good and bad;
beyond that their hardware accessories left a lot to be desired.
If it wasn't enough being made, it was the 18+ month waits
for new-long promised-accessories that were phased out no sooner
than they were delivered.
Sony stinks; they lie, and lie, and email you with more lies.
They put the CUSs in customer service.

Nintendo didn't even try.
That says volumes.
They didn't even bother to lie.
At least SCEA was consistent with the sweet nothings.

[Dr.MAD]

I smeeeeeeell a console flame war.
I don't know who started it and I don't care, but I won't hesitate to edit posts with insults, flame and more random crap.

If you people can't get along with each other in a friggin' CONSOLE DISCUSSION, then shut up.

[JAGPANZER]

Sure thing Doc, I wondered when you were going to pipe in.

Have a merry xmas or whatever you call it in Belgium.:artysmil

[ZippyDSMlee]

Mmm the PSP is ok but not to the point of droping 200 for it the DS is liek the GC it only has a few games that are worth palying...if you have 300$$ to burn....

[culubalo]

good gracious, I say something simple and obvious that doesnt need a bloody response because its neither attack nor defending or anything else for that matter and it somehow (despite all reasoning of a sane mind) starts another bloody war.

argh...

[JAGPANZER]

Oh don't even think I'm gonna let some punk a$$ virtual drive by go unanswered.

You cubalo were the schmog who said that H2 ltd ed cases were
being melted down for doorknobs.
Somehow I doubt that true(not enough metal or tiny knobs) or meant as a compliment.
No, I think it's your paltry attempt at a dig on HALO.

So yes, you got mud on your hands too.:enforcer:

[culubalo]

It was just a metaphor for the actual value of 'halo' as a game in japan compared to outside of japan, its not considered that much better than any other fps over there.

WHen people talk of markets they dont talk of nations, I'm thinking you are getting both confused, regardless perhaps I should extend that metaphor of halo not only confined to japan but for the whole market known as the asia pacific excluding of course Australia.

Umm, finally, microsoft is not profitting from the xbox, there was some stuff about it a while bnack about how its not expected to profit until around 2008, on the other hand sony and nintendo having established there presense some time ago profit and continue to do so in the gaming market.

The way ms is doing in japan they'll be lucky if they can make their money's worth by 2009, let alone make a profit by 2008. japan is a more important market than north america is, its highly adopting of technology and it always has been the driving force of next generation technology. To that end it definately is not looking good for ms with the way they are going trying to sell their xbox 360 and 'great' launch titles, to the japanese market in the way of hd-dvd adoption, because if the japanese turn to sony then blu-ray will certainly triumph over hd-dvd.

I think the clash here is with marketing technique (perhaps I'm wrong), the way microsoft rushed out the xbox 360 its hardly a launch, its hardly a launch until a killer app arrives, and everyone is putting their bets on halo 3 which isnt going to come until ps3. But they lost the japanese peoples trust, because as an AMERICAN analyst said (this was referring to mitsubishis problems) that the japanese market is largely dependant on trust, if they lose trust in a product they wont return to it, especially when there are note worthy alternatives, be it toyota's in the car industy or ps3's/nintendos in the games industry were both sony and nintendo have established a foothold and trust by the people that wont break unless the ps3/revolution somehow through some microsoft wished devine miracle turn into hideous flops then and only then is there a chance in a market with no alternative's will the japanese turn back to the xbox 360 and say 'hey, they did better than sony and nintendo'.

Anyway, if I say so myself I think the lack of a built in hd-dvd for the xbox 360 instead being promised as an addon later is a sign showing of microsofts lack of trust in its own consoles ability to prove itself, so you know how it goes, if sony kicks ms's butt (which looks like its going to happen in japan if no where else) then blu-ray will take over and the good folk at ms can release a blu-ray drive for their xbox 360's.

[JAGPANZER]

No confusion here bruddah.

The confusion is on your part entirely.
The Japanese market is a seperate part of the pac rim asian nations.
Similarly the North American Market is different from the American market.
In general the stats you mention are accurate,
it's the specifics that get hazy.


Sony is a video gaming nobody who came from nowhere with nothing to
contribute but the deepest pockets at the time:1994.
ALL of Sony's current cache in the industry has been purchased or cajoled from others.
MS is guilty of nothing but having deeper pockets than Sony.
AT FRIGGIN LEAST MS brings software development skills to the table.
MS had been developing PC software expressedly for hardcore gaming
long before they ever built a console.
It was a symbiotic relationship between MSintel and PC gamers that brought
PC's as far as they did, as fast as they did:
again, way before they ever built a console.

Seeing as all MS is doing is playing the role that Sony did in 1994,
there is no reason they can't pull it off.
All they have to do is deliver.

The PS3 is far from a sure thing.
The PSX was intended to be a dress reherseal for the PS3.
You, like SCEJ, might like to pretend that it never happened.
GASP-the japanese public rejected a Sony product!
It flopped like a landed fish in flat bottom boat.
IMHO that was too bad......I wanted one.
It was Ceramic White with a built in 40 gig Hdd(80 were available),
the jap version(us never happened) had dual built in sat HDTV tuners.
It was able to play games or watch two channels and record one or both to the Hdd,
but not game and record TV at the same time
OOoooOfffff
Well in concept it was cool; it just didn't translate well.

They still don't know if the PS3 can do what the PSX could not.
Blue Ray is hype for the most part.
Advanced audio CD's have been around 5-6 years now and their sales
rival vinyl record sales.
I don't see Blue Ray doing any better for the same reason.
People are happy with the present cheaper technology.
Barring a killer must have app for Blue Ray it's pie in the sky.

I'm sure it will do okay in Japan; ask NEC it can be enough.

The Rev will make the Virtual Boy look like a success by comparison.

[culubalo]

the concept of that little gadget you speak of was to bring one of those excessively expensive dvd burners with hard drives (I cant remmeber what they were called) and shove a ps2 in it. Its failure wasnt due to a lack of trust by the public for a sony product, rather sony experimented with it and found there was no demand for it at the time, or perhaps it was falwed in its own right.

Anyway, the xbox 360 is not doing very well in japan, what with a 'slow' start. I'm not surprised, as I said before the japanese wont believe the xbox 360 is a real console until there is a decent game for it, and even then, the 'killer' games the xbox has had have not been considered 'omg wtf? this is the best game ever made' with the japanese.

Its irrelevant what ms has done for 'hardcore' gamers, the question is what has ms done to show what i thas odne for the hardcore gamer? I'd go as far as to say that its not really relevant what either company have done good, whats important is wether or not they have trust, ms lot that trust in the japanese market with the xbox, and as I said before trust is important in the japense market, perhaps even more imporatant than the quality of product released. Having said that you dont win trust releasing crappy products.

Anyway at the end of the day the truth is that ms isnt doing too well in japan as of writing this, for whateer reason it may be, either what I wrote abnove or something completely else, and as I said before, I think the lack of a built in hd-dvd drive in the xbox 360 is due in part if not completely to microsofts lack of trust for the ability for the 360 to perform in the japanese market, which is the key market that it needs to perform in if hd-dvd is to get off the gorund. I mean imo sony probably doesnt hafve to sell a single console to ay market anywhere, so long as it gets a healthy lot of sales in japan, blu-ray will take over and ms will lose from it big time.

However at the rate were going it looks like there are going to be two formats to deal with and neither side is giong to give up on their respective next gen dvd player formats, I'm thinking if sony screw up like ms did in japan, given their console development is going through some hard times, what with their overly complex cpu reminiscent to a celeron being so hard to manufacture then we will probably see two competing dvd players for some time to come, or at best some sort of substitute that combines both together (hardly feasible though)

[JAGPANZER]

It's the Mac vs PC thing.
Blue Ray(mac) is an inherently better technology
but std Red Ray(pc) is cheap, plentiful, and tons of ready killer apps in
multiple formats are good to go.
Sure Mac still eeks out a very comfortable niche for itself;
but it's nothing compared to the empire that is MS.

Japs not trusting MS is most curious and not based on anything
concrete. It's mostly sony propaganda.
MS has gone out of their way to accommodate the nips.
The jap line up is everybit as flakey and quirky as the current Sony offerings.
What MS is having to overcome is a preconceived prejudice against a US machine.
If I were in charge of MS I'd say to hell with Japan and blitz all of Europe.
Heck I think if MS approached say SoKo with some MS base in Seoul for
the Pac Rim; the nationalism of the SoKo would have them start gravitating
towards the X360. Feelings still run high against Tokyo for WW2.
I'd try playing off that old war wound.
Just as the US saved SoKo, Singapore, Thailand, etc... from Imperial Japan;
MS is beating back the Sony invaders.

Cracking the Pac Rim would be easier if Japan was taken first I'll give you that.
If Japan is a nut that just won't crack, then my money says SoKo or
Singapore would: the rest would follow-everybody hates the japs in that area
they just deal with the japs because nobody has given them a reason to do otherwise.
Heck manufacture those X360's locally just for added nationalist sentiment.

Barring the Prime Minister of Tokyo giving into SCEJ and publicly apologizing
for jap war atrocities and arranging reparations for surviving victims families.
This is an easy win.
It's as low as it gets that's true.
But business is business:cool:

[culubalo]

The japanese dont trust ms more likely than not for several reasons, perhaps what you say about it being american is another reason. As I said before if japan doesnt adopt hd-dvd, it wouldnt matter if any other country does, japan has been and by the looks of things shall always be the driving force behind next generation technology, so even if it may be uner a false pretense that blu-ray is getting all the attention it still is, and if the japanese flock to sony which they probably will for the ps3 then it will be a major victory for blu-ray, will it be the decisive victory? Who knows, but it will be a victory over hd-dvd that may well decide which will become the standard.

I dont think the japanese are untrusting of the xbox 360 due to political reasons, I think they dont trust the xbox 360 because its older brother was the bastard stepchild of a black hole and washing machine. Now with the 360 ms is definately trying to make ammends to that horrific eye sore with the much easier on the eyes xbox 360, but are finding it hard to market it because their trust with the japanese people was lost long ago in the time of the original xbox.

A microsoft spokeswoman was saying that the reason fort he slwo start was a lack of launch titles which the japanese wanted, i.e. dead or alive 4, and she was 'confident' that xbox 360 sales will pick up momentum early next year when the other titles such as doa4 and various other games considered more popular in the japanese market break the scene. But imo it may not happen, ms lost their trust with teh original xbox, and now they pissed over the japanese with a heap of crappy games (some noteable games from the debut in the states were missing in the japanese launch), and the 'promise' that the games they want will come. But if you look at it in perspective, how many games does ms have that guarantee it buyers in japan? Halo maybe? doa4 definately, and around 3 other titles I think, but lets look at sony, they have final fantasy, metal gear solid, gundam wing, killzone, motorstorm, and a heap of others, all these games genuinely wowed gamers around the globe when first shown on screen, a far cry from the crappy mtv debut of the xbox 360 'killer launch title': perfect dark zero. This point alone will ensure lack of want to purchase.

All points accounted for perhaps the asia pacific region will be won over not by the side that has the better offering (granted both sides are offering basicaly the same bloody product) but which sides console will sooner be mod chipped to allow it to run good old 'backup' games.

I am less inclined to believe the reason ms is doing poorly in japan has less to do wth politics and more to do with trust, even if the trust was bought for the wrong reasons it still doesnt belong to ms, and sure as hell ms need to do well in japan otherwise they probably will not be able to win over in the console wars. I mean, if you look at america, australia etc, there are those who will buy a ps3 and those who will by a 360, (for some strange reason though everyone I know wants a ps3 because of gran turismo 5, go figure :P) but then we have japan, in which all the people who are likely to buy a console want a ps3 more than a 360, its basically the defining market I suppose.

[JAGPANZER]

Now isn't this much better cubie?
I knew you had it in you.

You points are valid to a point.
The XBX had good games; their jap line up was selected by japs:dorky:
The current planned 360 releases include Final Fantasy.
Killzone did okay; far from being a killer app.
Project Gotham Racing 3 is simply a work of art.
The XBXLV features totally eclipse anything GT5 is planning.

Whichever platform Team Ninja decides to develop for in this next round
will decide who's machine is more powerful for the end user.
Currently the XBX holds that distinction hence TN's Ninja Gaiden and NG Black.

Sony has catered to the Jap gamers more so than any other of their markets.
So in that respect I can see how the jap public tends to prop Sony up.

I still think the idea of establishing an MS outpost in Seoul would
shake Tokyo to it's foundations.
There is tons of animosity towards Japan just under the surface
waiting to be riled up for one reason or another.
You have images of jap soldiers morphing into sony businessmen
with their guns morphing into PS3's, duoshok's, and the like:
it would cause an uproar.
MS' excuse?-Hey we didn't force Japan to butcher millions in SoKo, Singapore,
China, etc....why you hazing us?
Don't hate the player, hate the game.


LOL, I know they would never do it; but it would be so rich.:facelick:

[culubalo]

Now isn't this much better cubie?
I knew you had it in you.
pardon?

LOL, I know they would never do it; but it would be so rich.
they wouldnt do it because it probably wouldnt work out like that ;)

[Iliketheds]

This whole console war is basically all a matter of opinion, some people like more powerful machines(Xbox 360 , PS3) while others prefer a different way to play games via the revolution controller. The biggest factor is usually the games though, because if I saw a console that could do everything I wanted to do for a cheap price but it had no games that I would enjoy I probaly wouldn't purchase it.

[JAGPANZER]

There is no PS3.
And I'm gonna get a kick out of seeing how many people shell out $750 for a console OTC price not eBay.

Nintendo is so sure of the catchiness of their new controller
THE REVOLUTION HAS CONCEALED PORTS FOR 4 GC CONTROLLERS
That in effect says it all.

Unless Sony changes their price point they will lose marketshare fast.

Revolution will be the end of Nintendo unless they got a better handheld in the works.

The fat lady can report to make up.

[Iliketheds]

There is no PS3.
And I'm gonna get a kick out of seeing how many people shell out $750 for a console OTC price not eBay.

Nintendo is so sure of the catchiness of their new controller
THE REVOLUTION HAS CONCEALED PORTS FOR 4 GC CONTROLLERS
That in effect says it all.

Unless Sony changes their price point they will lose marketshare fast.

Revolution will be the end of Nintendo unless they got a better handheld in the works.

The fat lady can report to make up.

You said the Wii would be the end of Nintendo, have you been following E3? It had the most popular booths and if you were on any other message boards you would have seen it's popularity. You may have been right about the PS3 as its price is very high, but many will still buy it for its exclusive games. I don't see what the 4 concealed ports for Gc controllers has anything to do with this discussion. The ports are for backwards compatibility with old Gamecube games. You might sound intelligent but you still appear to be a fanboy, putting down anything that you yourself do not like. Your opinion is not fact, so please refrain from expressing it in such a way that everything else is crap. You will probably respond with some new rant of fanboyism that has nothing to do with what I just said, so I will not be posting again.

[Qriz]

I didn't go through and read every post, mostly because JAGPANZER's are huge and annoying and hard to read. But if you watched this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3645316945384711579&q=nintendo

you would know that there is a Zelda game coming out for DS that is a direct sequal of Windwaker called The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. There is also a new Mario game coming out for DS that is a splitting image of the "old school" games with some new stuff thrown in that takes advantage of the DS' capabilities. There was also the announcment of Diddy Kong Racing DS, Yoshi's Island 2, and StarFox DS: Arwing Space Battles. And what I really look forward to: Final Fantasy III for the DS; with fully 3d graphics.

So there's some cool stuff coming up.

[necromancer1]

Sorry I havnt been paying much attention to this thread, just an update, what annoys me about the DS was really the early release without any decent games available for about 12 months, I ended up getting a PSP and for it much better, although Ive owned practicly every nintendo console and popular games around, I love the zelda series and mario, but nintendo game generally are aimed at the younger people, wich Im no longer in the category although I would still play and new zelda, probably not mario.

funny thing is people are still waiting for the gamecube Zelda twilight princess, when the new gen console is very close to launch. Ill still get it for sure when it comes out, but Ive lost almost all interest in my old gamecube, with the next gen consoles out or coming out.

get a hurry on nintendo, and please release some of those great nintendo icons , on release of the new console,

I watched a show on TV calle 60 minutes a while ago, and some proffesor said the average age for gamers is 30!, nintendo might want to consider this as they are cutting a chunk of gamers out of there business.

P.S Ive still to play a DS game, and Im still waiting for metroid hunters!!!, and have had the DS for over 12 months. bring on zelda(NEW!)mario(NEW), not friggin ports of old games GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

[JAGPANZER]

Get off your hobby horse you illgotten wiitard.

I got a lot of facts mixed with a healthy dose of my opinion.

First of all, I quit buying E3 spin back with the Sega 32x.
Very little of what you see is actually representative of what you will get.
You got console mock ups being run by hidden PC set-ups,
as well as scads of cool stuff that never sees the further light of day.

Seeing as Nintendo has been practically absent from E3 the past 2 years
I would expect their first major showing of anything to be met with a lot
of interest-virtualboy anyone?

Tilt function just isn't of little interest to me.
It's been of little interest going back to the PSX and Sega Saturn.
If not there would still be a plethora of tilt controllers offered from Madcatz
and the like. I'm sure the PS3 will require the dusting off of some earlier
designs and a little revamp-but that's all
been there done that

The Wii is fine, but if the gaggle of young gamers that consitute my sons
peers are the slightest bit indicative of the Wii's promise-it don't look good
for nintendo or sony for that matter.

I'm still mulling over keeping a PS3 for myself.
The PS2 was such a cheap a$$ piece of junk that I'm a little weary
over paying $750 for a PS3 that will just beak down inside of a year.
It might not sure, but I bought 4 PS2's because the junkers kept fizzling out.
Contrast this to the Cube which is still thumping since the day it was released.
As are the XBX's one since 11.15.01 the other since 10.14.03.
More so the PSX I got back in friggin 1994 is still running!
Not so for the PS2 I bought in 1999, 2000, or 2003.
The PS2 slimline is treated very gingerly as a result of previous experience
with SCEA product reliability.

The DS' main competition is Pixter and the Video JuiceBox.

The PSP is in a class of it's own until the Origami/UMPC's become feasible.

[Iliketheds]

If you look at sales statistics you would see the DS has sold more then the PSP. PSPs are for those who like the games on it plus the multimedia, the DS is for those who like the games on it. I'm gonna stop arguing with you about the next-gen because you are obviously a major anti nintendo guy. I understand if you don't like the games, but if you are saying their kiddy you have forgotten what gaming is. I play games to have fun, not to be the coolest cat in the crew.

[STi FlyBy]

If you look at sales statistics you would see the DS has sold more then the PSP. PSPs are for those who like the games on it plus the multimedia, the DS is for those who like the games on it.

DS is a lot cheaper than PSP ... I think that has a lot more to do with the sales numbers than the fact that a PSP is an all-in-one system :nod:

[JAGPANZER]

Exactly,
If the DS vs PSP price point is any indicator of consumer moods,
then the PS3 is going to get razed by the Wii.

I'm not anti-nintendo, I'm anti-bs'ing the consumer.

Look, if Nintendo's support for the Wii is akin to their support for the Cube
(remember all the things they said about that), then the Wii is doomed.
Heck if you listen to how the Nintendo execs tell it, the Cube is doing as
well as they planned for it to, if not a little better.............

Yah, sure as if.
Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Better yet how about not peeing?
Or wii-ing in this case.

The only fan boys here are the respective goofs who are willing
to give Sony and Nintendo pass after pass for all their foul ups
(do you dare me to list them?), and yet they give no credit to MS
that is the only console maker out there that has currently done
everything they said they would do for the XBX gamers.

I give credit where credit is due.

I heap scorn and cynicism on those who have earned it.

[STi FlyBy]

Look, if Nintendo's support for the Wii is akin to their support for the Cube
(remember all the things they said about that), then the Wii is doomed.

If Nintendo doesn't support the system, they're doomed to the same fate as Atari with Jaguar ... great system + no support = falling off the map :nod:

[mark_b_w]

Surely this thread should be closed as it's never going to get anywhere.

sigh...

[JAGPANZER]

Oh sure mark ignore the facts that I have laid out for you.

SCEI and NIN are so full of it they must brush their teeth with Ty*D*Bowl.

If you won't face up and recognize their shoddy behavior,
then yes this might as well be closed because there is no getting
through that thick lump that passes for a skull.

If none of you will even bother to try and answer for
or at least acknowledge the respective charges made, then slagg off.
You aren't interested in discussing the merits and flaws of individual
systems; only fanboy polegreasing---at least Michele my local SCEA rep
has an excuse for being a Sony kissa$$: she gets a check from them.

You swill jumpers are another thing altogether.


REMEMBER THE CUBE, because Nintendo forgot it.

[STi FlyBy]

REMEMBER THE CUBE, because Nintendo forgot it.

HAHA

You agree with my Jaguar analogy or you think I jumped the gun a bit?

[mark_b_w]

there is no getting
through that thick lump that passes for a skull.


Why thank you....

This is the reasoning of Jagpanzer...

[JAGPANZER]

No Dip your timing was quite on.

Nintendo could very well mean exactly what they are saying.
MS and Sony aren't competition.
They aren't interested in appealing to "serious" gamers.
They are looking to attract senior citizens and females.
HDTV and such and such sound doesn't matter to them.
Scary stuff considering the only peeps I know with WiFi
set ups ARE serious gamers.

Since most kiddy set ups are TV's 24" and under with no stereo set up,
it really doesn't matter to their primary target audience anyway.

The Nintendo shareholders wanted to sell out to Microsoft before.
They already knew of all of this, and still wanted to sell.
Only the CEO of Nintendo stopped the sale.
If this doesn't pan out any better than the Cube did,
barring him having controlling interest in Ninco,
there is nothing keeping the shareholders from firing the CEO
(yes you can fire the owner of a publicly traded company, sounds odd I admit)
and hiring a CEO more amicable to the interests and desires of the shareholders.

You say they wouldn't?

Who here would have guessed that the shareholders would have opted
to sell in the first place?

You don't know, what you don't know.

This is the reasoning of JAGPANZER
so let it be written.........

[born2phrag]

Well Jag, you make some, no, dare I say, alot of good points. I agree with pretty much everything you have to say, but I do disagree with one point of yours (or NIN's) in that the Wii isnt meant to appeal to serious gamers.

Now, most people who know me, would consider me a serious gamer, and the Wii does appeal to me. Not because of any fanboyism that I have, but because I like to be entertained by games.

Although I have never played a Wii, nor have I seen one in person, I have to admit that the videos Ive seen of it action make me want one. I think it would go nicely alongside my 360.

Admittedly, after the novelty of the Wiimote wears off (not that Im saying it will), I may get bored with it, and go back to playing on my PC. It will be the job of Nintendo to ensure that the novelty doesnt wear off the Wii, which is why they will need to prevent themselves "Cubing this one up".

Now, Im not saying any of this to start an argument with you, because God help me, I doubt I have the energy to go one-on-one with you.

And like I said, I respect the points youve made, and in essence, I do agree with what you are saying. I just thought Id bring my 2 cents to this debate.

As for the original purpose of this thread, I will say that I love my DS, and have done since the day I got it, and as far as comparing it to my PSP, all I will say is that when Im travelling, I play my DS, I watch things on my PSP.

[JAGPANZER]

No doubt, the DS isn't without it's own charm.

Nintendo is already back tracking regarding the appealing to serious gamers.
I think it was more mistranslation than anything else.

The Wii intially was only going to connect to the net via WiFi,
but now it will have USB 2.0 accessability.

Still, I've played variants of tilt control as well as earlier Nintendo
motion control devices-even if they hadn't perfected it, and I could see what
they were trying to do and even that at best isn't exactly an immersive
experience. It's different but there's a stand off'ish quality about it that
is more obvious than when using a normal controller.

You'd think it's more immersive but it's not.
PC and Consoles work on the premise of a certain level of suspended disbelief.
Our visual areas are saturated as well as our auditory senses, tactile input
adds a degree of physical interaction.
Now if you have a 9'x12' screen then you might have a visual medium
to fully appreciate the Wii, but I doubt the Wii would work that well
on that big of a screen.
Otherwise you will constantly be taking the visuals out of your minds focus.

Kinda like playing a game boy with chop sticks.

You don't have to wait for the Wii for active gaming,
http://www.xavix.com
It's a quirky machine, but it's fun in it's own right.
A friend of mine got one and his kids and their friends play on it
almost as much as they do their XBX's and PS2's.

[born2phrag]

The Xavix seems interesting. Too bad they dont seem to be available in the UK :( guesss I could check ebay for one, but I think theyll be extremely overpriced.

To be perfectly honest, Im not that big a fan for tilt controllers, I hated the ones for the Playstation, and the Microsoft one for PC did get really old really fast. But I think the main reason for that was a lack of quality games to support the pad, or any official support from third party developers.

I think the fact that Nintendo is building the console around the Wiimote gives the thing some promise, as the issues I raised above could be easily addressed.

But hey, if the Wii-mote does fail, at least they have the GCN ports for standard controllers. So they do have the option of using one of the best designed pads around (second only to those of the 360 in my opinion anyway).

[JAGPANZER]

It's a bad joke that the NGC ports on the Wii are slightly recessed enough
that it looks like the wavebird reciever plug won't fit-they better fit-.

It's more than mere software apps.
As intense as it gets in PGR or HALO, it's still not an unnerving tenseness.
But trying to do driving games with a tilt was as stressful as driving a real car.
Unless I concentrated enough to keep the balance meter merely level or
controlling the depth of a turn; I would crash/wipe out all over the place.
If a honey tried to cuddle up, like they will do, while I was playing
it $crewed up my movement more so than a regular controller.

The self imposed rigidity to maintain the controller within it's
proper field of control was exhausting and frustrating.
I get enough of that during rush hour.

The movement sensor rings ultimately succumbed to my sense of coolness.
You look stupid hopping around and kicking the air.
If you're 12 and under sure; you're a dork to a degree anyway.
But any self respecting hetero adolescent only goes near those gadgets
if females are showing interest in the controllers (not likely).
Otherwise we don't acknowledge them either.

It would be a nerd faux pax on the level of accidently having your
polyhedra dice fall out at the lunch counter-in front of the gloss girls.
Might as well crap on the principals desk so you could
get an immediate transfer to another district.

As I said we'll be getting a powder pink Wii.
My daughter is a huge Nintendo fan(colorware would attest to that).
She is one of their major targeted marketing groups;
she is looking forwards to the Rayman title.

Hmm the Xavix base is like $80 dollars US.
(What's that in pounds like a quid or what?)
The titles actually are daughterboards with the games loaded on them.
Response is fairly quick with no load times.
Yeah and did I mention the titles we like $110-120?
Yeah it's the NEO*GEO set up/price scale.
But all I know of are NTSC units.
The graphics are like PS1/Saturn-era,
I think a NTSC/PAL converter would jaggle it horridly- or not I dont know.