The Death Penalty

[Geordie Girl]

Opinions..... is it a good thing or a bad thing?
Do people deserve death when it is proven it was them?

[C4era]

I think so... wait a min.
your referring to me arent you?

I dont know she probably is

I need food.

call back in morning when I feel insane!

no wait sane...

no sane it bad thing....

right.

[Rocol]

I think that the Death Penalty should be applied, in certain cases, such the murder of a Child , when the case has been proven, beyond reasonable doubt.

[kintekke]

Totally agree wiv ya m8ty
With the advent and advances in DNA testing and now with the polygraph tests,like you said if the case is proved beyond reasonable doubt for certain crimes i think that death is the only answer.
Like the old addage 'Life for a Life'

[Geordie Girl]

Originally posted by ThePhoenix
They who? Are you talking about child abusers in general or about a specific case like the abusers that commited the recent murder in the UK?

But in all cases I don't think the answer to that question (if they deserve death, whoever they may be) really matters to the discussion of the death penalty (note: I'm not talking here about a specific case but about child abuse in general). Why? The problem resides precisely on the "proved it was them" part. You see, some years ago I didn't have any thoughtful opinion about the death sentece, but nowadays, after 2 movies I saw, both true stories about child abuse, I became much more supportive of life sentence over the death penalty.
The first movie "Indictment: The McMartin Trial" ( http://us.imdb.com/Title?0113421 ) was about a group of school infantary teachers who were wrongly accused of child abuse. They were oppressed for a while by the community but a very good lawyer, however, took interest in their case and was able to prove them innocent.
The second and more significant movie "The Lindbergh Kidnapping Case" ( http://us.imdb.com/Title?0074801 ) was about german immigrant (to the US) Richard Hauptmann who was wrongly accused of kidnapping a baby for ransom and then murdering him. This happened somewhere in the 1930's . He wasn't so lucky with his trial and despite weak evidences he was convicted to the electric chair and died. He was given the choice betwen pleading guilty and being sentenced to life instead of the chair, but he never did so, always pleading innocence.
These movies thaught me the very true fact of our society that I call the "mad mob blind justice" effect. What this effect is, is very simple: whenever a brutal crime happens in our society, especially one involving children (and also perhaps specially in the US), people go out for blood. They go out for justice, for revenge. But unfortunately, many times, people/society don't take enough measures to assure that those they are seeking to punish are the truly guilty of whatever crimes they're trying to avenge. So sometimes, perhaps more often that one would imagine, ++++ happens, and innocent people are accused (and sometimes punished) of something they aren't guilty of. Sometimes people are so stupid and want revenge so bad, that they put their anger on the first person with minimal signs of guiltiness they can, regardless if that person is actually guilty or not.
In life sentence they don't actually kill the convicted person, but in a way, they do take his life away. Life sentence is almost as bad(for the convicted person), if not even worse, than death penalty IMHO. But unlike the death penalty, life sentence is not final and irrevocable, and if turns out the person was not guilty one can bring that person back, but if the person's dead, Game Over.
So it is my opinion that the death sentence, especially because of the "mad mob blind justice" effect, is a very dangerous thing to have, so I'm mostly against it. And I liked the petition when I red the "call for justice" stuff, but when I read the death penalty paragraph I was a bit against the petition, because it sounded like the blind justice type of ++++.

Justice, yes, but true Justice!

I'm talking about anyone that takes a childs life. We've come along way in medical science since the cases your movies were based on. Yes in the past the letdown with the Death Penalty was that we might kill an innocent man. Well surely with modern equipment we can tell? Surely with all the advances in cloning and DNA recognition we can tell people apart? Can't we...?

In life sentence they don't actually kill the convicted person, but in a way, they do take his life away. Life sentence is almost as bad(for the convicted person), if not even worse, than death penalty IMHO.
Sorry but I disagree under current laws they will be given a life sentence (25 years) in a maximum security prison, they will be given parole after about 10 years and then if necessary, a new identity. They will have spent the last 10 years gaining A Levels and all manner of other qualifications, bettering their lives while watching Sky television and eating hot meals. That IMO is not as bad as the death penalty or enough justice for the victims and their famillies.

[Rocol]

Originally posted by Geordie Girl

I'm talking about anyone that takes a childs life. We've come along way in medical science since the cases your movies were based on. Yes in the past the letdown with the Death Penalty was that we might kill an innocent man. Well surely with modern equipment we can tell? Surely with all the advances in cloning and DNA recognition we can tell people apart? Can't we...?


Sorry but I disagree under current laws they will be given a life sentence (25 years) in a maximum security prison, they will be given parole after about 10 years and then if necessary, a new identity. They will have spent the last 10 years gaining A Levels and all manner of other qualifications, bettering their lives while watching Sky television and eating hot meals. That IMO is not as bad as the death penalty or enough justice for the victims and their famillies.

I totally agree with those points GG

[Dan]

i think its a good thing 4 very serious crimes like child murder

[Vile]

I definitely think it SHOULD be used in some cases.

Life sentences? 25 years? Thats a joke. Screw life in prision, we're still paying for the 3 meals they get every day. I'd rather take that money and give it to charity, than use it to feed these killers.

I think if it fits the crime, the death penalty should be used.

[Dan]

they should bring in the death penalty in uk deffinatly,i also reckon they should name all pedos in the area u live coz near me therea a pedo living down the road overlooking the child park :mad:

[Saurgrist]

I think that criminals should be given the death penalty in certain cases. Some of the things that people do are disgusting, and they should be severely punished for it. However, they do not always suffer from this. So, sometimes prison would be better, but sometimes the death penalty would.

[ABA]

Originally posted by Rocol
I think that the Death Penalty should be applied, in certain cases, such the murder of a Child , when the case has been proven, beyond reasonable doubt.

i agree with u that one :)

[Armadillo]

No cos they might make a mistake and kill when u didnt do anything

[Dan]

yeh but ,do u think its right if the person who is gonna get killed is 100% proved guilty

[Armadillo]

Theres no 100% because u could be set up by the mafia or some1 ,so it looks like it was u when really it was a set up

[Dan]

so u dont think there should b a death penalty

[C4era]

Certain cases yes.. Certain Cases no and in my opinion

Mostly no.

Long confinement and guilt of what they have done (If they have a conscience) would be punishment enough.

But remember.. I said Mostly no.. not all no. There are just some sick people that society can never correspond with

[ThePhoenix]

Originally posted by Geordie Girl

I'm talking about anyone that takes a childs life. We've come along way in medical science since the cases your movies were based on. Yes in the past the letdown with the Death Penalty was that we might kill an innocent man. Well surely with modern equipment we can tell? Surely with all the advances in cloning and DNA recognition we can tell people apart? Can't we...?

Can we? I'm not sure, I'm not a criminal specialist, but I think not. You see, all those technological advances may bring certain and unquestionable proofs to some cases, but it will only be to *some* cases, not all. There will always be some cases were they cannot be 100% sure of the guiltyness of a suspect, like cases without DNA samples, or cases whose main evidences are testimonies of people(very fallible), etc. And even with cases with DNA recognition or other technological advances there may still be room for error and fallibility. For example: if you're a jury on one such trial and a doctor testifies that the DNA found on the murder weapon is the same of the defendant, you may think "well DNA recognition is infallible so he must be guilty", but still what guarantees you that the doctor is telling the truth and that the DNA found is really the same of the defendant? Even if the doctor is a respectable person he may be lying and the defendent may be being framed (either by real criminals or by the authorities themselves!). Anybody here thinks this is a pessimistic and irrealistic view of reality? Well, then know that this has happened. In the Lindbergh case I've mentioned, because the authorities had only circumstancial evidences of Hauptmanns' guilt, they actually forced Charles Lindbergh and another person who was with him in the night of the kidnapping to lie and (falsely of course) say that it was Hauptmann's voice they heard on the night of the kidnapping. There was also another testimony forged by the authorities (that of a carpenter I think). I bet that on the juries view of things, Hauptmann's guilt was pretty sure( especially with Charles Lindbergh's testimony) yet Hauptmann was innocent. :(

BTW: What do the advances in *cloning* benefit forensic/criminal science in any way??... :p


Originally posted by Geordie Girl

Sorry but I disagree under current laws they will be given a life sentence (25 years) in a maximum security prison, they will be given parole after about 10 years and then if necessary, a new identity. They will have spent the last 10 years gaining A Levels and all manner of other qualifications, bettering their lives while watching Sky television and eating hot meals. That IMO is not as bad as the death penalty or enough justice for the victims and their famillies.

Whoa, wait a minute! Life sentence is sentence to prison for the rest of one's life (i.e. until you die), right? Either that or I've made some translation error, but what I meant with "life sentence" in my previous post was prison until you die, not some 25 years or so! I tottaly agree with you with this, 25 years of jail with 10 years of parole and all that stuff is not near as bad as death sentence. If we are to substitute the death sentence, it has to be with sentence for life with no (or little) possibility of attenuation.

[Geordie Girl]

It's those "some" cases I am talking about, where there is no doubt, of course there would have to be lots of checks put into place so there would be no room for error, it wouldn't come down to the say so of one Doctor.

I'm not saying that the death penalty is the perfect solution but something does need to be done to stop these henious crimes. If the threat of it will make a few of these sick minded people think twice before killing another child IMO this can only be a good thing.

The Lindbergh case was in 1932, we've come along way since then. It's never been proved that a miscarriage of justice was carried out in this case. It's full of conspiracy theories but that's all they are theories not fact.

BTW: What do the advances in *cloning* benefit forensic/criminal science in any way??...
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't cloning all to do with DNA and it's structure? Any advances in that area benefit forensic science.:p

Whoa, wait a minute! Life sentence is sentence to prison for the rest of one's life (i.e. until you die), right? Either that or I've made some translation error, but what I meant with "life sentence" in my previous post was prison until you die, not some 25 years or so! I tottaly agree with you with this, 25 years of jail with 10 years of parole and all that stuff is not near as bad as death sentence. If we are to substitute the death sentence, it has to be with sentence for life with no (or little) possibility of attenuation.
Agreed Life should mean Life but unfortunately it doesn't which is why I took your point the wrong way.

[Demonic]

well on one had lets look at the sheer abusrdity of it. killing killers to show other killers killing is bad? helllooo.. But there are some people out there so ****ed up that the only way to ensure they hurt nobody agian is to kill them. like almost anything else in the world..all depends on circimstance

[Inquisitor]

No we shouldn't bring back the death penalty it would give the B***ards an easy way out. Hard labour is what's called for make em work till there on there knees and make em work some more. No rest for them.

[Dan]

The prison life 4 inmates aint really really bad either coz they get to play pool,watch tv and have free time ,they shouldnt b able 2 do activities like this. :mad:

[Rocol]

Originally posted by Dan
The prison life 4 inmates aint really really bad either coz they get to play pool,watch tv and have free time ,they shouldnt b able 2 do activities like this. :mad:

Agree M8 ... let's introduce the " Chain gang " over here ... make them work .. and I mean Work .. so that they cannot go back to thier cells .. order a " takeaway " and select which " Sky " movie they wish to watch !! :(

[Dan]

yep,make them work there a$$ off,like the old prison near me,they had 2 build big stone walls on the moors......now thats more like it.

[Rocol]

You are " The Man " Dan ;)

[Raine]

Okay,gonna go out on a limb here (and hope it doesn't break). Honestly, for serial killers who have confessed and/or been proven guilty with DNA and other damning evidence- apply the death penalty. There's no WAY these heaps of human refuse will ever be rehabilitated, and a life sentance is just wasted on them. Why pay taxes to feed and house these monsters? Before anyone jumps down my throat, I DON'T believe we are Gods and should judge ANYBODY...but what's the alterative? Anarchy? And let me also say, the justice system in the US sucks you know what!!!! Believe me, I was locked up IN A PRISON for bouncing a check! Hel-lo, what's wrong with this picture?! Trust me, it was a total mistake, but at the time, it didn't feel like one! Can you imagine someone being falsely accused of a crime worse than that?! Actually, I know one person who was accussed of molesting a child, and there was NO way this person would do such a thing (yes, I suppose I'm biased, but, c'mon, there are some people who are just plain innocent). I've also been on the other side of the abuse fence, too, meaning I was abused, and no, I REALLY don't want to expand on that- I think I've spilled enough information for now.

[C4era]

A poll on this would have really intrugued me..

Should the death penalty be used?
A. No
B. Perhaps
C. Yes
D. Die die die!

I choose..

B

[rogueingreen]

I am against the death penalty, BUT......
i think that prison sentences should be longer and life in prison should be as nasty as possible, prisons should be a place to be feared, i would rather child killer wished that he was dead for the rest of his life than for someone to make him/her suffer for 5 mins as they are executed.

I would gladly pay higher taxes knowing that it was making criminal scum living a life of living hell.

[Outlawz]

good topic GG :)

ok i get to go in prisons a lot due to my job i tell u you have it worse at butlins :( the worst of the worst get tv's vcrs carpets etc when i mean worse of the worst i mean (rapists, paedophiles murders.) and the people that do lil crimes like say assualt get it rough . Now face it anyone could be done for assualt protecting a Girlfriend friend whateva. But not just anyone is sick enough for murder rape etc

i think the death penalty is the best means of prevention and punishment, these days claim insanity your laughing now how many of them are insane . Does insanity actually exist or is it just an excuse for actions of people. obviously with the risk of falsly killing someone. but the risk of people killing someone inself defence does that consitute the death penalty. The laws i believe need sorting you can actually sepnd more time in prison on a minor charge than you can murder

But yes i think death penalty bring it back also bring back the stocks :)

[Geordie Girl]

Originally posted by Outlawz

But yes i think death penalty bring it back also bring back the stocks :)
Here, Here!!!

[Dr.MAD]

Originally posted by rogueingreen
I am against the death penalty, BUT......
i think that prison sentences should be longer and life in prison should be as nasty as possible, prisons should be a place to be feared, i would rather child killer wished that he was dead for the rest of his life than for someone to make him/her suffer for 5 mins as they are executed.

I would gladly pay higher taxes knowing that it was making criminal scum living a life of living hell.

I TOTALLY agree on this point. Does anyone here knows what the Soviet Goulags were? These were AFWUL prisons of the Soviet Union (no, I'm not communist;)) . People preferred 1000 times to die in place of going to these prisons. THAT would reduce criminality. Like Rogueingreen said: a pedophile or a child killer doesn't diserve to die, he has to suffer a lot before.

[Raine]

Originally posted by rogueingreen
I am against the death penalty, BUT......
i think that prison sentences should be longer and life in prison should be as nasty as possible, prisons should be a place to be feared, i would rather child killer wished that he was dead for the rest of his life than for someone to make him/her suffer for 5 mins as they are executed.

I would gladly pay higher taxes knowing that it was making criminal scum living a life of living hell.

I agree that prison life should be made much, much harsher, but really I'm not sure either about the death penalty. You're right, 5 minutes vs. the rest of his life is a big difference. The only problem that I can see with that is serial killers, in my opinion, HAVE no conscience and therefore, whether locked up or not, they probably won't regret their crimes (excluding the truly insane ones). Then again, who's to say which person is sane and which one isn't? Anyway, taking their lives takes away all hope of redemption or escape,etc.
Dead is DEAD, after all, and dead people can't live to kill again!

[Raine]

Same thing for pedophiles and rapists (the serial types)-are they really going to regret it? Will they get out and do it again, and again? I don't think it's about punishment, it's about reform. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure if they should get the death penalty...everything has two sides to it, and who really knows anyone else's mind? But, then again, is it worth a child's life or mental health (or an adult's, for that matter) to give the criminals another chance?

[Black Veg]

Don't have the time to go into all the details or the power to answer all the points, but I will say this-

I am against the Death penalty- only for cases of betray or in certain hard crimes (Harsh war crimes, genocide, Ethnic cleansing etc), only in these cases death as a penalty should be used!

Some of my reasons are:

1) The topic was only if they are guilty- well sorry GG, you know as well as I do how the courts work-

A) In most cases there is no clear line between guilty and not guilty. proof of a crime has to be complete. 100% of evidence showing a man is guilty is very very hard to achieve...


B) Same as point 1A- Especialy in criminal procedure, where diff criminal intent is the basis of the degree of the crime- Murder is not the saem as killing.

Becuz the basis of the legal system is of the Actus reus and the Mens rea- a case might fall between "crimes", making it impossible to say guilty of this crime or another.

To sum up point 1 (A+B)- it's hard to say someone is guilty it's even harder to say guilty of this crime or the other.

2) The criminal justice has changed from a system that only seeks revenge for a crime- to a system that tries to do 3 things: revenge the crime, deter people from doing the crime, and last but not least a very importent point is to "purify" the man charged and to make a better civilian.
Revenge still takes it's place BUT it is not the main point of punishment these days.

I know the idea of purifying, sounds very strange, not to say funny (In a way) - I know this is the ideal- and not the real world. But as a value it is an important idea, that a society should hold.

3) The idea of deterring is very important. BUT it has been shown that in many countries, where the punishment for crimes has become a harder punishment- The rate of crimes did NOT descent....The idea that capital punishment (death penalty) would change the rate of crimes is not true.

4) A point I do not agree with but still exists is that by taking the life of the criminal we are no better than him - or "2 wrongs do not make a right".

5) Becuz of the essence of the death penalty - it should be "saved" for the worst of crimes - in my eyes only the hard core of crimes can be crimes in which death is given (Bettray and crimes such as war crimes).

6) "The steep slope" - calling the death penalty as a punishment for a large group of crimes can lead us to the point in which the value of life has disappeared from society and the essence of punishment for crime is taken for granted - All crimes will have the same "end"- Death for the guilty party.
A condition seemiler to the point of no return in political-constitutional law - where taking a party outside the barriers of law can lead to the creation of a one party type of country, where all others are outside the law....

7) As for the topic of prisons and life in prisons- well I have to say it doesn't happen all around the world (And thats a fact) - life in prison is not as easy as one would think (And I have read your reply outlawz).
Anyway if it is like what outlawz said- than the effective thing to do would be harder conditions in prisons (Like the friendly mod said;)).


Above all, before saying anything about this topic- one must remember - Death as a punishment is unchangeable....If the verdict of death is given and later realized as a mistake NOTHING can be done about it!

[ThePhoenix]

Originally posted by Geordie Girl
It's those "some" cases I am talking about, where there is no doubt, of course there would have to be lots of checks put into place so there would be no room for error, it wouldn't come down to the say so of one Doctor.

I'm not saying that the death penalty is the perfect solution but something does need to be done to stop these henious crimes. If the threat of it will make a few of these sick minded people think twice before killing another child IMO this can only be a good thing.

The Lindbergh case was in 1932, we've come along way since then. It's never been proved that a miscarriage of justice was carried out in this case. It's full of conspiracy theories but that's all they are theories not fact.


You mean we would should have a system where there would be convicts who would be almost-surely guilty for life sentence, but not surely guilty for the death penalty. I mean I can't imagine a court saying "We're pretty sure you're guilty to convict you to life sentence, but not sure enough for death sentence!". I don't think that would go well with many peoples mind's or fit well in a judicial system.
And how would that "beyond any doubt" system work? Who was to decide that? I doubt such system would work well.
Beside's I still think that death penalty is not worth it: I don't think it stops people from commiting crimes more than life sentence does, and the only advantadge I see in it (like said by various people here in the forum) is that it doesn't spend taxpayer's money on sustaining the criminals. However, if life sentence convicts were forced to work regularly (kinda like community work), not only no taxpayer's money was spent on them, but it also makes their time in prison more harsh! It's an idea.

And please don't qualify the Lindbergh Trial as "full of conspiracy theories". It's much more serious than that (and even if he wasn't innocent, just the strong possibility shown is frightening). Please, if you haven't already, I strongly recommend you someday watch the movie i refered (or a documentary).

Also, very good points brought up by black_veg post.

Originally posted by Geordie Girl
Agreed Life should mean Life but unfortunately it doesn't which is why I took your point the wrong way.

What do you mean life sentence doesn't mean life sentence?!? Is that a british language thing or what?...

[doughboy]

Only just seen this thread, so gonna answer without reading any replies..

If it can be proved is one thing...The sentence should apply to the motive.

eg wife suffers years of abuse then she should not receive death sentence for knocking off her old man.

tw*t in street kills someone in a mugging....obviously he deserves the sentence...

I also don't believe in pre-meditated murder being instantly punishable....Maybe the dead person really really did deserve it.

[Dr.MAD]

Originally posted by Raine
Same thing for pedophiles and rapists (the serial types)-are they really going to regret it? Will they get out and do it again, and again?

I think the purpose of such afwul prisons is not to make the criminals regret their acts, the real purpose is to make them suffer till the end of their days. Sorry, but a serial killer, or a rapist (serial type) or a childkiller diserves to stay and rot in prison till they die.

I don't know if any of you (talking to people that live somewhere else but in Europe) remember the Dutroux-affair? This :cussing: locked two little kids in his cellar and let them there without giving them anything to eat. They both died of famine. Can you imagine that such an as***le has a DVD player, a TV, a laptop, a comfortable bed,etc in his prison??? This is incredible: this man diserves to rot in a dark prison with no bed, no TV no luxe at all!!

Or am I wrong?

[Inquisitor]

No m8 your not wrong, death is far too of an easy route for them they should all be sent to Camp X-Ray for life.

[anjilslaire]

The death penalty is certainly a deterrent for the convicted, now isn't it? ;)

[Black Veg]

Deterrent?

Maybe in some cases - but in some countries, where you have punishments like cutting hands, legs, death etc etc, the rate of crimes does not go down....

[Dr.MAD]

Originally posted by Black Veg
but in some countries, where you have punishments like cutting hands, legs, death etc etc, the rate of crimes does not go down....

That's right. In many countries, they still execute people by beheading them, or by getting them on the electric chair: and it doesn't reduce criminality. You can better put criminals for life in a prison with no luxe

[Demonic]

in a perfect world, we wouldn't need jails or the death penalty, most f north america Europe ect. all "delvoped" countries have moved beyond that, what we really need to focus on is the issue of criminal rights, criminals should have no rights. period you are convicted, you are sent to jail, you don't have the right to appeal. so ends the fanasty, it's not about justice anymore, it's about finding a loop hole in the system, the cop didn't say somthing right or whatever. and thus end my rant :)

[ABA]

hey is C4era on Vacation or something??

[philman132]

i disagree with the death penalty, it isnt allowed in britain and im glad for that, not that i'm benifiting from it, but i just dont belive that killing the killers will teach others that its wrong,

and what about those who are falsly accused, i have heard of lots of cases where people have been killed and then found not guilty due to new evidence

it is wrong to judge others, look at those two policemen who handled the case of the murdered schoolgirls in soham, and now are being accused of child pornography now, it could be anyone.

i still like the 1700 way of dealing with criminals in britain, deport them all to australia, australia was basicly a huge island full of british criminals!!!

i dont think that paedophiles should be treated in the way they are by people who live near them, they get bricks hurled through their windows, abuse shouted at them, its just stupid the way people react, i no that they feel insecure, but that is just taking it too far, these people have rights too.

[rogueingreen]

the death penalty is still here in britain but it will never be used, you can still be hung for high treason, piracy and a couple of other thing that i forget now

[Sublyme]

What if the death penalty isn't the maximum punishment for certain people? There are a load of extreme religious groups whose members would quite happily die for their beliefs if caught committing some mindless atrocity. In a situation like this would the death sentence be a more severe punishment than say, life imprisonment?

[Black Veg]

I know it is not the topic but what Sublyme said is true:

I know the British army used to fight the Az adin Al qasam group - An arab terror group (Funny this terror group was in Israel, when there was no Israeli- PA conflict, yet there were terror attacks - shows something about what the Palestinians are saying), whenever the bastards used to blow themselves up the British army would take pork skin and cover the dead bodies with.

Accourding to the Muslim religion - pork is an unholy animal and it prevents the man (With the skin on him) from going to heaven. They also belive that the Shiid (Martyr) goes to heaven with 72 virgins that is why some of them blow up. Yet after the British started this action, the amount of terror attacks went down....

[Sublyme]

Good idea by the Brit army.....take away the idea of redemption for their actions and the nutters don't seem quite so excited about dying. I like it

[Black Veg]

Again going a ltl far from the topic - too bad some of the terrorists nowadays are non religious - this means they have no problem with the "redemption" idea.

I mean groups like PFLP and other groups are not as religious as the Az Adin Al Qasam group:(

[zer0c00lrulez]

well you can say that you are innocent and the science can prove you wrong, but after a few minutes of research after you where killed, someone finds out that you where actually inocent.

The science is not so advanced, here in Texas a couple of months ago a young man was killed by lethal injection, i mean that there was no reasonable doubt, and after that, three months later they find the guy that actually did it, they proved that the new guy did it and this guy also confessed.

I believe that the young man should be alive.

and i also believe that everybody should keep their own opinion because most of the people never worked on a biochemical lab, i did and it is very hard.

And also you are supposed to judge a man for what he did, not for what the media says , the public opinion has a lot to do with the death of this young man, he supposedly killed a kid of 8 years old.

You also have to think, you just can't kill a man just because a kid is dead.

[mrhotmail]

If it fits the crime, fry them all.
Fools shold think about the girls they rape, and people they kill before they do it, instead of ranting after hearing what the punishment will be.

[frogdude]

There was a topic on this subject a month ago on another forum i'm on. And my answer remains the same:

Some of them should die. I think the worst criminals should be killed. But there is always a chance that the guy you killed was innocent. Not to mention that we shouldn't destroy what we can't create. My opinion? I say kill the worst criminals :mad: , but check them twice before you do it.:)

[mrhotmail]

Well, we are assuming, their guilt is proven, so yes.
In todays world we can find out this stuff a lot easier, with DNA testing and all, so....

[SnipeR_X]

it doesn't matter or wether it is a good or bad thing it matters on the crime that the person has commited

[Dark Lord]

I think for some crimes there should be death penalty (genocide, molesting, war crimes, etc.). For the remainig - a prison for life.

[Sky_L@r]

I deffinately think that the death penalty should be reinstated,other than the fact that these sick muderers rapists etc. should be givin the privillage to life and wasting good tax payers money to live a life that shouldn't be considered a life to live.I personaliy have the belief that is stated in the Bible-an eye for an eye.Example:If someone killied another person,they should get killed themselves.

[FORSAKEN]

well think of it this way if i was an idiot and saw your friends or whoever that is close to you and ran them over would you like me to be sentenced 10 years in prison?
it's not worth the life of your friends 10 years in prison this is were a death penalty should come in and take place.

[FORSAKEN]

Originally posted by Sublyme
What if the death penalty isn't the maximum punishment for certain people? There are a load of extreme religious groups whose members would quite happily die for their beliefs if caught committing some mindless atrocity. In a situation like this would the death sentence be a more severe punishment than say, life imprisonment?

yeah in that case you can put osama bin ladin there he has followers that f****n blew up the WTC and other places.
do you think he would care much more if he was caught and sentenced to death?

[Dr.MAD]

As I already said, death penalty is for sissies. Put these a**h*les in cold small prisons with no bed, no TV, no PC, NONE of all this luxe.
Let them rot where they belong!

[Aman]

and u know spy? That's what I used to think. But even under the tightest security and the most technologically advanced circumstances, there will be a way to excape. Terrorist organizations for example, one of them gets captured they will just blow the place up. Easy as that.

I think that the death penalty as it is is pretty damn stupid. They just give them an injection. BIG DEAL! I think that if there was a way, spy 005's idea would work the best for people like this.. but if not, there are other ways that others have done before.

1. Inject poison that makes all your organs shrink in a 48 hour period of time
2. Inject poison that makes you throw up all your organs in 10 minutes intrivals.
3. Beat them to a bloody pulp
4. Crush them very very slowly for a 48 hour period until his bones crush and organs colapse.

I think those are some good suggestions. Yes, they may be gross, but I think it would be good to use against people like Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hosein.

[Dr.MAD]

Yes, you have a point. Always a risk that someone escapes. And also WE pay taxes for THEM.

Another good suggestion is: throw them in a hole, and let them die of famine: it costs nothing, he can't escape, and you get rid of some human trash.

But that's a little sadistic...or not?

[Anber]

If you deny rights to others, you should be denied the same rights.

If you harmed another, you have forfeited your right to protection. If you killed someone, you have forfeited your right to live.

[Deadlus]

Originally posted by Spy 005
Yes, you have a point. Always a risk that someone escapes. And also WE pay taxes for THEM.

Another good suggestion is: throw them in a hole, and let them die of famine: it costs nothing, he can't escape, and you get rid of some human trash.

But that's a little sadistic...or not?
In my country, torturing is not allowed to execute a prisoner. That's why we have injections. Painless death. I was told that in the old days, they hang ppl. They couldn't hang fat ppl though cause if they are too fat, there head will come apart with the body while hanging. I heard they put them in a diet first. lol I think that means starving there sorry @ss (that's worst than hanging them). Anyways, in someways I don't really agree with death penalty cause what happens if someone was being frame?In another way, some *ucks deserve that $hit. Like Bin Laden.

[JAGPANZER]

Here in Texas we put heinous criminals to sleep; lethal injection.
I agree that's too easy.
We put the animals that we love to sleep when their pain of living gets too much for their little bodies to bear.
I say bring back old sparky.

Or better yet. An 8ft square plexiglass box with a chair that the condemned is strapped to. Water slowly fills the box to the top. The convict would feel totally helpless and nothing but abject horror at their impending demise.
The coup de grace are the ones who will instinctively try to hold their breath.
LOL, pure vanity, they will die. After about 15 minutes, the tank is drained, the body bagged....NEXT.
It's neater than hanging or electrocution; no blood, feces, or urine to have to worry about mopping up. No hazardous medical waste(syringes and such) leftover.
The water washes their life away.

Next year a whole bunch of murderous bastids are gonna get put down. Barring appeals, Texas is set to put down more criminals next year than ever before(well, since we were annexed anyway).

[Dr.MAD]

Originally posted by Anber
If you deny rights to others, you should be denied the same rights.

If you harmed another, you have forfeited your right to protection. If you killed someone, you have forfeited your right to live.

I just think that you should remove all rights of the REAL criminals : I talk about people like Bin Laden, Dutroux (the guy in Belgium that locked little girls in his cellar and let them die of famine after raping them), etc. If they don't respect the human rights, they don't diserve to have them neither

[JAGPANZER]

That's the first I've heard of this dutroux a$$wipe.

Uggh, the only solace I have is that at least the US doesn't have a monopoly on sadistic bastards.

Though in this case perhaps I wish we did. From what I understand the EU doesn't offer capital punishment. Pity, then at least this dutroux maggot would get terminated instead of leaching off your tax euros till they die of old age.

I don't even appreciate the irony that it's your tax euro's and not my dollars.
In fact I would willingly pony up my take home dollars to go towards greasing that rat fukc sunuvabi+ch.

That's foreign aid I could live with.

[kodakjiman]

I TOTALLY agree on this point. Does anyone here knows what the Soviet Goulags were? These were AFWUL prisons of the Soviet Union (no, I'm not communist;)) . People preferred 1000 times to die in place of going to these prisons. THAT would reduce criminality. Like Rogueingreen said: a pedophile or a child killer doesn't diserve to die, he has to suffer a lot before.

But doesn't the Universal Declaration of Human Rights go against "cruel and unusual punishment"?

[Black Veg]

But doesn't the Universal Declaration of Human Rights go against "cruel and unusual punishment"?

About terrorists and rights:

Someone who fights his wars "above" the laws of war should not be given the rights of normal humans.
Terrorists taken in are not POWs! Not by law and not by logic!!!!
Am not saying they should be dennied of all basic rights, but the way they behave takes away some of their rights, Even the basic ones.

What are laws? Men made laws? Not guide books given to us by the devine. Laws, especially laws of war, are made by humans, in the case of war laws it makes it "simple and easy" to kill others - Making order in the Chaos of war.
Who makes these laws? Humans - Winners of wars. Why are they made? so nations can rest without guilt problems.

Basic Moral Judgement is the test I use - So should others.

As for my own views about death (As pointed above):
Only a few crimes should face the death - Mass murder (Usually War crimes or genocide) & People or groups who betray. How they should die? Hanging.

[Karasu]

Someone who fights his wars "above" the laws of war should not be given the rights of normal humans.
Terrorists taken in are not POWs! Not by law and not by logic!!!!
Am not saying they should be dennied of all basic rights, but the way they behave takes away some of their rights, Even the basic ones.


Ah, well, most terrorists do not have a country to back them up, have no ability to lead a conventional war. They are using the only way to make themselves heard. One persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.

[Dr.MAD]

Yes, but that only way is a disgustingly cowardly way. It's not a reason to give them the right to do that.

It's like in WWII. A regular German Soldier who fought against Allied forces was treated like a Prisoner of war. After all, he is just defending his country...Such men were treated mostly well. An SS officer... got shot because he is the one that enforced the "endlösung"

A terrorist belongs in the category of people that should be shot. Some people deny the human rights to other... why would we give them those rights then?

[Black Veg]

Ah, well, most terrorists do not have a country to back them up, have no ability to lead a conventional war. They are using the only way to make themselves heard. One persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.
Oh come on - did u even know there is a legal term for lawfull combatents???? Terrorists are difined by international law!!!!!

And no, nobody can place Partizans with these blood loving muslim bastards - there is a HUGE gap between them - even someone with half a brain can understand that, or does anybody need me to clarify these issues?
(short hint it was covered here before - has to do with goal, how many people get killed, targets etc etc etc).

[Puppet Master]

I am for the death penalty. I believe that anyone that takes another's life, deserves this kind of punishment, to die for the cruel deed he/she has commited. That's the only way the it should be.

[origamidude]

Oh come on - did u even know there is a term for illegal commbatent????
Terrorists are dfined in internationa law!!!!!

And no, nobody can compare Partizans to these blood loving muslim bastards - there is a gap between them - even someone with half a brain can understand that, or does anybody need me to clear these lines? (short hint it was covered here before - has to do with goal, how many people get killed, targets etc etc etc).


I totally agree with you. But i suggest that terrorists should be punished by the Russian "Tree Rip" in which one leg is tied to one bent tree limb the other to another bent tree limb...................then the trees are bent and let go at the same time which results in "imense pain" (legs and ++++ being shot)!!!!! :)